Atheism and Ghosts

[Aryeh]

I'm curious if you would elaborate on that experience if I give my word that I will not mock it. I've been a practicing witch for almost two decades and have not had any negative or forced supernatural experiences.

But you are a pagan, which is not the witchcraft I am talking about.

I am talking about the covenant made between women (or men) between powers and principalities: the person gets power and knowledge of arts in exchange for some measure of control over their souls in the afterlife.

Dark magic was used against my family while I was a toddler - to send a witch avatar to cause me to die (it was aboriginal magick.) Luckily, my mom was Christian, and had tools to fight this.

Another form of witchcraft is a radial hedge spell in which the boundary of containment and influence is city wide (as opposed to a room-sized ward or trap.) These wards and traps, actually, are part of the architecture of most Western countries - especially cities built upon magic squares.

Other incidences of witchcraft involve psionic assaults. As far as I know, I have not been psionically assaulted by a witch.

Is this the type of witchcraft you practice?

 

[awitch]

But you are a pagan, which is not the witchcraft I am talking about.

I am talking about the covenant made between women (or men) between powers and principalities: the person gets power and knowledge of arts in exchange for some measure of control over their souls in the afterlife.

Dark magic was used against my family while I was a toddler - to send a witch avatar to cause me to die (it was aboriginal magick.) Luckily, my mom was Christian, and had tools to fight this.

Another form of witchcraft is a radial hedge spell in which the boundary of containment and influence is city wide (as opposed to a room-sized ward or trap.) These wards and traps, actually, are part of the architecture of most Western countries - especially cities built upon magic squares.

Other incidences of witchcraft involve psionic assaults. As far as I know, I have not been psionically assaulted by a witch.

Is this the type of witchcraft you practice?

No, I don't believe in any of what you've listed above. For me, magic is 99.9% psychological, leaving a little wiggle room for the gods to bend the odds in my favor a little bit if they happen to be so inclined.

 

[Aryeh]

Whether it is real or psychological, it is very disturbing and confusing.

It is confusing because for millenia cultures have had a dualistic approach to nature: regular (observed) and supernaural (observed by means other than modern means of explanation can explain.

There was a time when gods, demons and monsters was a real as the air we breathe. At this time, perhaps, was when science was unaffordable by all layperson - considering every day was a life or death battle with ethereal or physically impossible entities.

Now, the paradigm shift has pushed the "monsters, demons and gods" aside, and has focused on science.

The two are not separate, and it should be implicit that the more we learn about our natural world, the more "supernatural" things will be seen as natural.

I think once the veil is lifted, and the dimensional screen is removed, it will surprise a lot of people. The veil is already breaking down and influencing people in odd ways. People are "awakening" to more weird happenings. More reports of unexplained activity (I don't know if this is an actual increase, or an increase of confidence for people to tell their experiences.)

There was a point when everyone - Hebrews, pagans, druids, etc. - knew of the spiritual world, and publicly acknowledged it. More or less, that culture has gone underground, and with it a lot of information and useful history.

 

[Aryeh]

No, I don't believe in any of what you've listed above. For me, magic is 99.9% psychological, leaving a little wiggle room for the gods to bend the odds in my favor a little bit if they happen to be so inclined.

Right. Paganism is usually very different from the dark arts, magick (with a k,) and the powers of the principalities associated with it.

 

[awitch]

Right. Paganism is usually very different from the dark arts, magick (with a k,) and the powers of the principalities associated with it.

While I do identify as a witch, I suppose that's true to the extent that I don't acknowledge "magick" as being a real thing.

I also don't believe in ghosts in the traditional sense of being disembodied souls of dead people or animals. Nor do I acknowledge the existence of demons.

 

[juvenissun]

Theoretically an atheist can believe in ghosts as long as he/she disbelieves in gods, but as a practical matter it seems that believing in ghosts opens the door to believing in gods.

Lots of people have had ghost experiences - even if some of these experiences have naturalistic explanations. Sometimes the naturalistic explanations are almost as hard to believe as the superstitious explanations. Sometimes there are multiple witnesses, physical objects disappearing and reappearing, and so forth.

Another odd thing about ghost experiences is the apparent importance of Christian stuff (house blessings, crosses, prayers, etc.). For somebody like me who has almost no confidence in Christianity, this is confusing. Maybe the psychological comfort of these Christian behaviors helps people to end hauntings and Hindu behaviors might be just as helpful to a Hindu.

Any thoughts on ghosts? Have you experienced them? What explanations do you have? (Even though I mentioned atheists in the subject, I would appreciate feedback from anybody.)

Ghosts are simply angels.
So, there are good ghosts and bad (evil) ghosts.

 

[TheOldWays]

Ghosts are simply angels.

Well that settles that. This thread can probably be closed now. No further discussion is needed.

 

[awitch]

Well that settles that. This thread can probably be closed now. No further discussion is needed.

We should probably inform people that angels are simply extra-terrestrials first.

OK. Now we can close the thread.

 

[eartheart]

1500 hundred years ago it was demons, 100 years ago it was a ghost haunted world, we are now well into a government conspiracy/alien haunted world. Same trend, confusion etc...

Sent from my LGLS665 using Tapatalk

 

[cloudyday2]

I also don't believe in ghosts in the traditional sense of being disembodied souls of dead people or animals. Nor do I acknowledge the existence of demons.

I don't have any clear idea of what ghosts might be either. When I say "ghost" I simply mean the unknown cause of poltergeist effects.

Have you ever experienced those things - especially with multiple witnesses? I can only think of one instance when I experienced something with a second person. I entered my apartment and there was an overpowering smell of cinnamon. My mother could see that something was bothering me, and then she also smelled the cinnamon on her own without knowing what I was smelling. It is possible that I hallucinated her presence as a witness though. If ghosts always smelled like cinnamon, I probably wouldn't be as annoyed by them. LOL

 

[Aryeh]

1500 hundred years ago it was demons, 100 years ago it was a ghost haunted world, we are now well into a government conspiracy/alien haunted world. Same trend, confusion etc...

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Or, perhaps same entity type, different nomenclature.

It is amazing how the demons of the petroglyph era look like supposed aliens of today, for example.

 

[Aryeh]

I don't have any clear idea of what ghosts might be either. When I say "ghost" I simply mean the unknown cause of poltergeist effects.

Have you ever experienced those things - especially with multiple witnesses? I can only think of one instance when I experienced something with a second person. I entered my apartment and there was an overpowering smell of cinnamon. My mother could see that something was bothering me, and then she also smelled the cinnamon on her own without knowing what I was smelling. It is possible that I hallucinated her presence as a witness though. If ghosts always smelled like cinnamon, I probably wouldn't be as annoyed by them. LOL

There are things like "familiar spirits" that are demons in disguise pretending to be a relative, friend, or someone you are intimately familiar with and/or love. It is typical for smells to be associated with supernatural activity - sometimes sickening, sometimes pleasant, and sometimes no smell.

Hallucinating your mother's presence is deep... don't know if you did or didnt. Maybe it was all explanable? Someone bake a pie and forgot, or a visitor came over wearing perfume or cologne...

As much as I think I know about the supernatural, I know that not everything is supernatural even in our limited knowledge.

 

[cloudyday2]

There are things like "familiar spirits" that are demons in disguise pretending to be a relative, friend, or someone you are intimately familiar with and/or love. It is typical for smells to be associated with supernatural activity - sometimes sickening, sometimes pleasant, and sometimes no smell.

Hallucinating your mother's presence is deep... don't know if you did or didnt. Maybe it was all explanable? Someone bake a pie and forgot, or a visitor came over wearing perfume or cologne...

As much as I think I know about the supernatural, I know that not everything is supernatural even in our limited knowledge.

My only roommate is a cat, and neither of us cooks

The reason I consider the possibility that I hallucinated my mother, is that I suspect I truly did hallucinate my mother and another witness to a different experience. I asked my mother if she remembered this other experience several months later, and she did not remember. It is possible that she forgot, because she only witnessed part of what I witnessed, but it is also possible that I hallucinated my mother and the other witness. (I would describe the experience, because it has some interesting religious symbolism, but it is hard to explain and weird.) Unfortunately, when I was experiencing a lot of things, I tried to not react or talk about any of it. I wrote a list of the experiences, but I deleted the list, because I didn't want somebody else to read it and think I was crazy. Luckily, I haven't had any experiences for several years. Maybe I am no longer psychotic, or maybe the ghosts lost interest in me. Either way, I am happy.

 

[Radrook]

Not true.

I don't infer it so it is a question of may, rather than must.

But the subject is ghosts, not gods.

I don't believe in ghosts.

 

[awitch]

I don't have any clear idea of what ghosts might be either. When I say "ghost" I simply mean the unknown cause of poltergeist effects.

Have you ever experienced those things - especially with multiple witnesses? I can only think of one instance when I experienced something with a second person. I entered my apartment and there was an overpowering smell of cinnamon. My mother could see that something was bothering me, and then she also smelled the cinnamon on her own without knowing what I was smelling. It is possible that I hallucinated her presence as a witness though. If ghosts always smelled like cinnamon, I probably wouldn't be as annoyed by them. LOL

I've only really had one spooky experience. Can't and won't say it was definitely paranormal but it makes a great campfire story (and didn't happen during any witch related activity). There's a bit of a back story so I won't take up a lot of space unless anyone really wants to hear it

 

[cloudyday2]

I don't believe in ghosts.

I should reverse the question. Instead of asking atheists who might believe in ghosts why they aren't open to belief in gods, I should ask theists who believe in gods why they aren't open to belief in ghosts. (I assume you are a theist.)

 

[Robban]

Book of the month,

"Haunted house" by Ugo First.

 

[Larniavc]

I don't believe in ghosts.

Neither do I. Want to go to the pub?

:cheers:

 

[Radrook]

Neither do I. Want to go to the pub?

:cheers:

Nothing wrong in having an alcoholic beverage now and then. It is drunkenness that is to be avoided. But seriously, I do not believe that people roam around after death because something in them lives on and becomes their ghost.

 

[Radrook]

I should reverse the question. Instead of asking atheists who might believe in ghosts why they aren't open to belief in gods, I should ask theists who believe in gods why they aren't open to belief in ghosts. (I assume you are a theist.)

Not all theists believe in an immortal soul.