Atheism and Ghosts

[quatona]

I don't personally know you so I can only go by what I generally perceive to be the MAIN attitude.
It's called making an inductive leap based on a persistent pattern.

Where I come from, it´s called "sweeping generalization".

 

[Radrook]

Where I come from, it´s called "sweeping generalization".

A sweeping generalization or an overgeneralization doesn't take predominant trends into consideration; my generalization does and is therefore justifiable.

 

[quatona]

A sweeping generalization or an overgeneralization doesn't take predominant trends into consideration; my generalization does and is therefore justifiable.

I´m sure you have a representative sample rate.
In any case, your conclusion on individual posts from your generalization isn´t justified.

 

[Larniavc]

Theoretically an atheist can believe in ghosts as long as he/she disbelieves in gods, but as a practical matter it seems that believing in ghosts opens the door to believing in gods.

Lots of people have had ghost experiences - even if some of these experiences have naturalistic explanations. Sometimes the naturalistic explanations are almost as hard to believe as the superstitious explanations. Sometimes there are multiple witnesses, physical objects disappearing and reappearing, and so forth.

Another odd thing about ghost experiences is the apparent importance of Christian stuff (house blessings, crosses, prayers, etc.). For somebody like me who has almost no confidence in Christianity, this is confusing. Maybe the psychological comfort of these Christian behaviors helps people to end hauntings and Hindu behaviors might be just as helpful to a Hindu.

Any thoughts on ghosts? Have you experienced them? What explanations do you have? (Even though I mentioned atheists in the subject, I would appreciate feedback from anybody.)

Never seen a ghost. Never even seen a video of one. Can't say I believe they exist.

 

[Radrook]

I´m sure you have a representative sample rate.
In any case, your conclusion on individual posts from your generalization isn´t justified.

I am not concluding anything about any individual posting on this forum since I cannot read minds.

 

[Radrook]

Never seen a ghost. Never even seen a video of one. Can't say I believe they exist.

'
I could say same about dark matter and dark energy.

 

[cloudyday2]

Never seen a ghost. Never even seen a video of one. Can't say I believe they exist.

Consider yourself lucky. LOL

 

[quatona]

I am not concluding anything about any individual posting on this forum since I cannot read minds.

So, contrary to statements such as "How atheists think is really no mystery", you are aware that you don´t know how the individual atheists participating in this thread think? That´s great.

 

[Radrook]

So, contrary to statements such as "How atheists think is really no mystery", you are aware that you don´t know how the individual atheists participating in this thread think? That´s great.

Not on an individual basis. There are always exceptions to a generality. I should have qualified my statement so as not to give the impression of infallibility by claiming 100%. My mistake. Apologies.

 

[Larniavc]

'
I could say same about dark matter and dark energy.

Yes. Yes you could. But it would have no bearing on the matter at hand; for you see, dark matter and dark energy are not ghosts.

 

[Radrook]

Yes. Yes you could. But it would have no bearing on the matter at hand; for you see, dark matter and dark energy are not ghosts.

But the analogy isn't flawed because they both share the same crucial aspect of you never having seen them.

 

[quatona]

But the analogy isn't flawed because they both share the same crucial aspect of you never having seen them.

With the difference being that noone has claimed to have personal encounters with dark matter or dark energy.

 

[Larniavc]

But the analogy isn't flawed because they both share the same crucial aspect of you never having seen them.

But I'm not suggesting dark matter and energy are real, either.

How is something I don't claim to exist important?

I don't claim elves, gremlins or Eskimos are real, either.

 

[Aryeh]

Consider yourself lucky. LOL

Absolutely.

Sometimes I envy those who are in their mind 100% sure the supernatural doesn't exist. I got exposed to it by "force/assault." Not a fun way to realize there is another plane of existence that can interact with this one.

Only for the sake of knowledge and transparency would I want others to see the supernatural. But, compassionately I think most would be better off never having the slightest of exposure to this other plane.

 

[TheOldWays]

On what exactly are you basing your assumption that Christianity is dead in the Star trek universe you envision?
Is it that mankind comes across other sentient intelligent creatures?
Well, umm, that can be explained via a creator who made them as well via your sacred evolution abiogenesis ideas.
So it doesn't necessarily follow.

Probably a number of things. Mainly, the myth of Christ's return would be even further overdue then it is now. The 'apocalypse' happened (WW3) and there was no '2nd coming'. Humanity was nearly destroyed but survived and rebuilt to make First Contact which introduced them to the Vulcans and beyond. Now hundreds of years later they are probably not to concerned with such an 'earth' based religion like Christianity.

Not sure why you through in the 'sacred evolution abiogenesis' comment. I worry little about evolution and don't know what abiogenesis is. I am not an atheist.

 

[Aryeh]

But I'm not suggesting dark matter and energy are real, either.

How is something I don't claim to exist important?

I don't claim elves, gremlins or Eskimos are real, either.

It is about incredulity. Depending on how "important" you are to another, your rejection of something that may be dear to another can cause problems.

For example if your friend came to you and said s/he was attacked by what s/he was sure was an interdimensional entity (and describes the incident, showing physical assault,) but you say it is impossible because it doesn't exist, you invalidate everything your friend says.

That invalidation is a compounded addition to the embarrassment, isolation and risk of telling someone who may categorically reject what is very real to the person.

People don't just say things like this for fun, because it is well known how untrusting, and downright mean people can be about things that do not fit in their paradigm sphere.

Another reason why it is dangerous is in addition to the aforementioned, most people who deny a supernatural world have never experienced it. So, non-exposure and "education" creates a system that prevents genuine exposure of this other side of reality.

Really, you do do harm by not at least entertaining everything without necessarily accepting it.

And, it isn't an atheist thing either. It is a people thing. Even on this forum I think many Christians don't want to touch on supernatural topics DESPITE the density of supernatural phenomena in the bible that they believe. If anyone should believe in the supernatural, it is the Christian that believes a man was created by God in a woman''s womb with no human male, and this man died but resurrected, cast out demons and instructed US to do so!

Meanwhile, more and more people are becoming exposed to the supernatural at increasing rates. But, because of cultural rejection of the supernatural, many endanger themselves even further (since they don't know what they are dealing with.)

Finally, and perhaps a more important perspective, is that it is incredibly disheartening when you feel like you are fighting against a fundamentally different entity (ghosts, spirits, etc.) and your own people (humans in this plane of existence) don't even entertain what you have to say as possible - even scoff. Now, how horrible is it to be attacked by something you can't see or perceive, and your own human family''s FIRST mental go-to is to approach from the notion of dealing with a crazy person?

Disbelief, like belief, is perfectly fine, but everything has consequences. And, they usually have a sphere of influence MUCH greater than one would think.

 

[Radrook]

But I'm not suggesting dark matter and energy are real, either.

How is something I don't claim to exist important?

I don't claim elves, gremlins or Eskimos are real, either.

Yes but the analogy is referring to respectable theories which are accepted though unseen and that is the premise YOU chose as the reason for your disbelief-inability to see.. the problem with your premise is that things don't have to be directly seen in order for us to detect their existence via the effects they have. So the basis for your rejection- inability to directly see, is flawed.

Furthermore, your analogy to elves and Gremlins is also seriously defective. You see, Elves and Gremlins cannot be inferred from creation's extremely compelling display of mind whereas a creator MUST be inferred if we are to remain logical. In fact, the only way to avoid inferring a creator is to assume an inconsistency of policy where the denier is perfectly able to reason one moment and then totally incapable of reaching logically basic conclusions the next when examining identical data and glibly announcing that "I can't see!" Such proclamations might be practical for evasive purposes but are totally inadequate for rebuttal purposes because the7 merely announce incomprehension and do not provide any cogent reason for the cause of such incomprehension.

 

[Larniavc]

a creator MUST be inferred

Not true.

I don't infer it so it is a question of may, rather than must.

But the subject is ghosts, not gods.

 

[cloudyday2]

Absolutely.

Sometimes I envy those who are in their mind 100% sure the supernatural doesn't exist. I got exposed to it by "force/assault." Not a fun way to realize there is another plane of existence that can interact with this one.

Only for the sake of knowledge and transparency would I want others to see the supernatural. But, compassionately I think most would be better off never having the slightest of exposure to this other plane.

Whether it is real or psychological, it is very disturbing and confusing.

 

[awitch]

Sometimes I envy those who are in their mind 100% sure the supernatural doesn't exist. I got exposed to it by "force/assault." Not a fun way to realize there is another plane of existence that can interact with this one.

I'm curious if you would elaborate on that experience if I give my word that I will not mock it. I've been a practicing witch for almost two decades and have not had any negative or forced supernatural experiences.