Atheism (2)

[createdtoworship]

I didn't make a comment on the age dating factors of the bible.... I'm not sure where you're even going with that argument?

As for Adam, Eve and the trees..... Can you demonstrate Adam and Eve even existed? And how do you know them, and the trees were "created" as full adults?

The whole Adam and Eve/Garden of Eden story is kinda ridiculous to be honest. I'm honestly surprised you're attempting to argue it from a literally true position.

The "Adam and Eve" seal depicts a naked man and a naked woman walking as if utterly downcast and brokenhearted, followed by a serpent. Presently in the University of Pennsylvania Museum in Philadelphia, this seal was found in 1932 by Dr. E. A. Speiser near the bottom of the Tepe Gawra Mound, 12 miles north of Nineveh. He dated the seal at about 3500 B. C. and called it "strongly suggestive of the Adam and Eve story."5

from

Christian Evidences
adam and eve seal

temptation seal

 

[Dave Ellis]

Coming implies a beginning. Two of God's nonmoral attributes are: His aseity which simply means: not caused by another, and His necessity. Aseity and necessity are kindred attributes. Aseity has to do with as I mentioned earlier His existence, and necessity has to do with the impossibility of His nonexistence.

Trying to define him into existence won't work. You must demonstrate God exists, and has those qualities.

 

[Dave Ellis]

Very rational. More rational than asserting that something can come from nothing; which is what must be ultimately accepted if one holds to the naturalistic explanation of the universe.

You're the one asserting that everything came from nothing.... We have never once made that argument.

 

[Dave Ellis]

actually a friend you owns Jesusislord.com did.

so God put it on His heart to give me some Bibles, and He did.

No, the guy who owns jesusislord.com gave you a bible.

 

[Dave Ellis]

there is a book

called "science speaks" by peter stoner I believe that has the statistics of 30 prophecies coming true, then He does 300 I think.

He says it is as likely as filling texas 2 feet deep in silver dollars and picking one.

If I remember accurately

Ok, now demonstrate that the prophecy in question came true.

And how did he arrive at his calculations? Prophecy can be a sketchy topic. I could prophecise that it's going to snow next January 17th. If I'm right does that mean I'm divinely inspired?

I could also prophecise that at some point between now and the end of time some nut is going to come along and claim to be the son of God. Furthermore, he'll wind up getting killed for his statements.

If some guy 400 years from now claims to be the son of God and gets bumped off because of it, that doesn't make me a prophet.... however some people would regard me as such, and use my testimony as evidence for their beliefs in that guy.

For it to be a prophecy worth taking note of, it must contain an extreme amount of detail. None of the biblical prophecies do that, and there's no evidence any one of them actually came true.

 

[createdtoworship]

Ok, now demonstrate that the prophecy in question came true.

And how did he arrive at his calculations? Prophecy can be a sketchy topic. I could prophecise that it's going to snow next January 17th. If I'm right does that mean I'm divinely inspired?

I could also prophecise that at some point between now and the end of time some nut is going to come along and claim to be the son of God. Furthermore, he'll wind up getting killed for his statements.

If some guy 400 years from now claims to be the son of God and gets bumped off because of it, that doesn't make me a prophet.... however some people would regard me as such, and use my testimony as evidence for their beliefs in that guy.

For it to be a prophecy worth taking note of, it must contain an extreme amount of detail. None of the biblical prophecies do that, and there's no evidence any one of them actually came true.

I won't answer that (too many prophecies) I suggest another book by walvoord, called "every prophecy of the Bible" pretty good.

 

[createdtoworship]

No, the guy who owns jesusislord.com gave you a bible.

He donates Bibles to people because God tells Him too. By "putting it on his heart" So He didn't just give it to me out of the kindness of His heart. If you want a Bible email him. He might have a few left.

 

[Dave Ellis]

The "Adam and Eve" seal depicts a naked man and a naked woman walking as if utterly downcast and brokenhearted, followed by a serpent. Presently in the University of Pennsylvania Museum in Philadelphia, this seal was found in 1932 by Dr. E. A. Speiser near the bottom of the Tepe Gawra Mound, 12 miles north of Nineveh. He dated the seal at about 3500 B. C. and called it "strongly suggestive of the Adam and Eve story."5

from

Christian Evidences
adam and eve seal

temptation seal

Are you serious?

A seal depicting two people without description does not count as evidence for anything. How he arrives at the idea they were "downcast and brokenhearted" with no facial features or physical descriptors to go on is beyond me... looking at the position they are in on the seal, my first thought is that they're having sex. One of them is clearly mounting the other one from behind.

Making the ridge to the left of them out as a snake is also grasping at straws... my first inclination there is that it's a wall or something of that nature in the background of the scene. It could also just be a piece of stone that was never cut away, it's a pretty rough seal.

To add further doubt into this claim..... the story of Adam and Eve was not known to any civilization at that time, which all had their own creation myths. The story of Adam and Eve would not arise for another 2,500-3,000 years after this seal was made.


As for the temptation scene... all there is here is two people sitting down and appearing to be talking to each other. The figure on the left appears to be female, and the figure on the right appears to be wearing a hat of some kind. Two not well defined people talking in a picture in no way ties to Satan trying to tempt Jesus.

Add that in with the complete ridiculousness of the temptation story and I'm not convinced at all.

 

[Dave Ellis]

I won't answer that (too many prophecies) I suggest another book by walvoord, called "every prophecy of the Bible" pretty good.

Give me your most compelling example.

 

[Dave Ellis]

He donates Bibles to people because God tells Him too. By "putting it on his heart" So He didn't just give it to me out of the kindness of His heart. If you want a Bible email him. He might have a few left.

Can he demonstrate God told him to?

Regardless, he gave you the bible, not God.

 

[createdtoworship]

Give me your most compelling example.

palm Sunday, Jesus rode on a donkey. It was prophesied what day that would happen. Look it up. The math is there.

start in chapter 9

Daniel The Key To Prophetic Revelation

 

[sandwiches]

All you have to do is come up with a rational explanation of how something can come from nothing and you are home free. I doubt however, that you will be able to. Seeing as how it is logically impossible. Ex nihilo nihil fit. Parmenides. Maybe you have read of him before?

Whatever caused your deity, could very well have caused the universe.

God is uncaused?
Then, maybe the universe is uncaused.

Nothing can come from nothing you say?
What about God? Didn't he come from nothing?

He didn't come from anything as he has "always been" you say?
Why couldn't the universe have always existed, then?

No matter what answer you give about God's origins or lack thereof, we can use the same answer for the universe.

 

[Gadarene]

palm Sunday, Jesus rode on a donkey. It was prophesied what day that would happen. Look it up. The math is there.

start in chapter 9

Daniel The Key To Prophetic Revelation

You do realise finding a donkey and riding around on it is not a particularly remarkable thing to do?

You do also realise that writing down a "prophecy" AFTER the events have happened isn't prophesying, right? Most of what Matthew concocts weren't regarded as prophesies.

 

[createdtoworship]

You do realise finding a donkey and riding around on it is not a particularly remarkable thing to do?

You do also realise that writing down a "prophecy" AFTER the events have happened isn't prophesying, right? Most of what Matthew concocts weren't regarded as prophesies.

daniel was written thousands of years before Jesus, hello?

 

[createdtoworship]

Whatever caused your deity, could very well have caused the universe.

God is uncaused?
Then, maybe the universe is uncaused.

Nothing can come from nothing you say?
What about God? Didn't he come from nothing?

He didn't come from anything as he has "always been" you say?
Why couldn't the universe have always existed, then?

No matter what answer you give about God's origins or lack thereof, we can use the same answer for the universe.

God is self existent and self defining, because He is a universal agent, and has universal agency.

 

[sandwiches]

God is self existent and self defining, because He is a universal agent, and has universal agency.

The universe is self existent and self defining, because it is a universal agent, and has universal agency.

 

[createdtoworship]

Can he demonstrate God told him to?

Regardless, he gave you the bible, not God.

Nehemiah 2:12
Then I arose in the night, I and a few men with me. And I told no one what my God had put into my heart to do for Jerusalem. There was no animal with me but the one on which I rode.

If God puts something in your heart, it's not your actions but Gods.

 

[sandwiches]

Nehemiah 2:12
Then I arose in the night, I and a few men with me. And I told no one what my God had put into my heart to do for Jerusalem. There was no animal with me but the one on which I rode.

If God puts something in your heart, it's not your actions but Gods.

Yea, Dave... Just like God was the one who's responsible for the plagues that befell Egypt.

Exodus 9:12
"But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses."

 

[Gadarene]

daniel was written thousands of years before Jesus, hello?

Centuries, please.

And yes, I'm aware he did. That said, who says it was a prophecy? It's not a hard thing to do to get a donkey and ride around, especially if you have a prophetic text to inspire you and put ideas in your head. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

And again, with a lot of Matthew's prophecies, it's debatable how much was seen by the Jews as prophecy and how much is retconning.

Or maybe it was a coincidence. Either way, it's not that spectacular a thing at all.

 

[Gadarene]

Yea, Dave... Just like God was the one who's responsible for the plagues that befell Egypt.

Exodus 9:12
"But the Lord hardened Pharaoh’s heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the Lord had said to Moses."

Yeah, so much for free will, eh....