At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread - Please Vote in Poll Thread

ZACTAK · Jul 28, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
I guess I just see the mod positions differently from you. I do not see them having the kind of authority or relationship that you seem to. If they did, then, I would agree that this site should only have Christian mods. However, I see mods as administrators who simply review a report along with at least two others, make a decision to see if it breaks a rule, then, send a very generic PM to the person. I am pretty sure that it is a form PM. There is nothing personal about it. When they are not moderating, and are participating as regular members, their mod position does not influence me one way or the other based solely on whether or not they are mods.

One last point, some of the "Christian" mods have been less charitable than one would expect if they are to meet the definition of Christian minister. I saw no move to remove them from office because they were being held to a higher standard and failed. Just a thought...

Lisa

I agree that some mods are not of the best Christian model... but a huge problem was that there was a policy not being enforced on staff and those staff members were able to and still able to walk all over the boards and do as they pleased without any repercussions.

Those PMs that are sent out are not form PMs. I was on staff from June 2006 to January 2007 and every single PM, warning or infraction I sent out, I personally typed out.. EVERYTIME.. I never copy and pasted the actual PM I would send. It all sounded similar, but I would add different touches here and there to what I was saying. I also helped counsel many members with their struggles through Biblical ideals... now please do not twist what I am saying, an athiest, pantheist, muslim, etc. can give advice as well, and good advice, but I think as this is site was founded on Christian principles that the counsel from staff should come from a Christian.

ScottBot · Jul 28, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Maybe, just maybe, it would be helpful if we saw atheists as Jesus sees them...

Atheists are potential brothers and sisters...

Just a random thought...

Lisa

I wonder how Jesus saw the Pharisees, the same way?

The one thing I have to admire about atheists over religious hypocrits is that they don't claim to be something they are not. At least there is a greater spark of intellectual integrity to them, and on that I applaud them.

Beastt · Jul 28, 2007

RaggedRobin said:
No one is trying to say they aren't Lisa

That's simply not true. You are very much saying that we're not. You're saying we're not worthy of positions within staff, that we should be isolated and sequestered off to some small corner of the forum and that we should be subjected to rules which favor one side when engaged in debate.

Debi1967 · Jul 28, 2007

Beastt said:
No one is suggesting that you can't or shouldn't give Christian advice. But your claim that you are here to practice Christianity is betrayed by your devout opposition to equality and tolerance. <mod edit>

I already admitted to being the bigot you claim me to be ok and darn proud of it too because that means I am putting God first and not this false sense of equality

Freodin · Jul 28, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
No one has "said" it, but it has been implied that they are somehow less than the rest of us. They are less capable of being mods. They are lesser members of this site. They should not be telling Christians how to be Christians. Yeah, it has been implied.

Lisa

Well, they really should not tell Christians how to be Christians.

But as far as I have seen, most Christians are not qualified to tell others how to be Christians.

GraceInHim · Jul 28, 2007

voted for #1

#2 excludes and seems pompous.. also like Fred Thompson for Prez in 08

intricatic · Jul 28, 2007

Brimshack said:
There is one other thing to be considered here. Those who advocate a strong ministerial role for moderators have an odd relationship with the standards at issue. On the one hand, it certainly mean non-believers should not apply. We certainly aren't qualified to act as ministers, and it's certainly safe to say we aren't going to lead people to Christ (barring the whole 'works in mysterious ways prospect). So, granting that assumption, there certainly is good reason to exclude non-believers from the prospect of moderator/ministerial positions.

On the other hand, that is placing an awful lot of faith in the abilities of people who have done very little to qualify for the position. Can you honestly say that the staff here is really qualified to act in a ministerial capacity? Is your vetting process really sufficient to ensure good quality ministers for the site. It certainly hasn't in the past, and I doubt it will do so in the future.

When I was on staff, I only ever voted yes for candidates I thought had a strong ministerial approach to posting in the forums. This was, of course, after researching their post history, and/or talking to them myself.

Debi1967 · Jul 28, 2007

Beastt said:
That's simply not true. You are very much saying that we're not. You're saying we're not worthy of positions within staff, that we should be isolated and sequestered off to some small corner of the forum and that we should be subjected to rules which favor one side when engaged in debate.

I personally never said that in fact I defended you haviung positions within staff in the beginning of this thread when I defended sparklecat and ravenscape thank you very much

JimfromOhio · Jul 28, 2007

A V O said:
I wonder how Jesus saw the Pharisees, the same way?

The one thing I have to admire about atheists over religious hypocrits is that they don't claim to be something they are not. At least there is a greater spark of intellectual integrity to them, and on that I applaud them.

Yes... it is better to be an atheist than being a hypocrite Christian.

Lisa0315 · Jul 28, 2007

A V O said:
I wonder how Jesus saw the Pharisees, the same way?

The one thing I have to admire about atheists over religious hypocrits is that they don't claim to be something they are not. At least there is a greater spark of intellectual integrity to them, and on that I applaud them.

Actually, that is a very interesting question. I personally do not think Jesus saw Pharissees as potential brothers and sisters. I think he saw them as already in Hell. He could see straight to their hearts and what he saw was whitewashed tombs.

The sinners, though, how our Lord loved the sinners! He ate with them and talked with them and laughed with them. He healed them. He ministered to them and...He died for them. Praise be to our Lord! He died for ALL OF US!

Lisa

Beastt · Jul 28, 2007

ZACTAK said:
I agree that some mods are not of the best Christian model... but a huge problem was that there was a policy not being enforced on staff and those staff members were able to and still able to walk all over the boards and do as they pleased without any repercussions.

Those PMs that are sent out are not form PMs. I was on staff from June 2006 to January 2007 and every single PM, warning or infraction I sent out, I personally typed out.. EVERYTIME.. I never copy and pasted the actual PM I would send. It all sounded similar, but I would add different touches here and there to what I was saying. I also helped counsel many members with their struggles through Biblical ideals... now please do not twist what I am saying, an athiest, pantheist, muslim, etc. can give advice as well, and good advice, but I think as this is site was founded on Christian principles that the counsel from staff should come from a Christian.

Again I see the claim; rendered null and void by the insinuation that nonChristians aren't as good or worthy as Christians.

No matter who is in charge or what percentage of Christians are in the membership, if the site operates on principles of bigotry, then it's a site of bigotry and not one of Christianity.

MartinM · Jul 28, 2007

Freodin said:
Well, they really should not tell Christians how to be Christians.

Of course, Christians never tell non-Christians what we're supposed to believe

ZACTAK · Jul 28, 2007

Beastt said:
CF isn't a church. It claims to be a community. Let it live up to the name.

I rather expect that you already have a church. I don't go to your church. I do go here and I'm as much a member of this site/community as you are.

It's very revealing how frightened many Christians are of having nonChristians in roles where they'd have no concern having another Christian. That's bigotry. If you promote the idea, wear the label. We're not here to damage CF or you. In many cases, some of the nonChristians here can probably do a better job than some of the Christians filling these roles. You've not even given it a chance to work.

That is right, it is a community, but I believe Erwin's vision for this site is to BE LIKE a church.

What I am stating has nothing to do with bigotry at all. And I have given it a chance to work, and you know what I see? Members leaving, staff dropping like flies.. staff who have told me they would have to be forced out to leave, they weren't forced out, they left by their own choice! Many places in this site are in shambles... its a mad house here, I can't believe I logged back in to talk about this, but I guess I love God enough to not allow a site dedicated to him to be ripped down and Satan run wild.

intricatic · Jul 28, 2007

Beastt said:
No one is suggesting that you can't or shouldn't give Christian advice. But your claim that you are here to practice Christianity is betrayed by your devout opposition to equality and tolerance. <mod edit>

I take it that you feel free to continue to call people biggoted repeatedly because there is no risk of judicial action against your account for doing so? This makes my point for me. Thanks.

Debi1967 · Jul 28, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Actually, that is a very interesting question. I personally do not think Jesus saw Pharissees as potential brothers and sisters. I think he saw them as already in Hell. He could see straight to their hearts and what he saw was whitewashed tombs.

The sinners, though, how our Lord loved the sinners! He ate with them and talked with them and laughed with them. He healed them. He ministered to them and...He died for them. Praise be to our Lord! He died for ALL OF US!

Lisa

So you think that if one of those Pharisees repented then he wouldn't accept his repentance because he already had them in Hell?

ScottBot · Jul 28, 2007

Lisa0315 said:
Actually, that is a very interesting question. I personally do not think Jesus saw Pharissees as potential brothers and sisters. I think he saw them as already in Hell. He could see straight to their hearts and what he saw was whitewashed tombs.

The sinners, though, how our Lord loved the sinners! He ate with them and talked with them and laughed with them. He healed them. He ministered to them and...He died for them. Praise be to our Lord! He died for ALL OF US!

Lisa

That brings us to the very derailing discussion of atheism vs anti-theism.

One says "I don't believe in God."

The other says "There is no god and I can prove it."

I can work with the first group, I'd rather shave my head with a cheese grater while chewing on aluminum foil than work with the second one.

Lisa0315 · Jul 28, 2007

Freodin said:
Well, they really should not tell Christians how to be Christians.

But as far as I have seen, most Christians are not qualified to tell others how to be Christians.

If a Christian tells me, "That is not very Christ-like!", I pay attention. If a non-Christian points something out to me, I fall on my knees. Sometimes, those on the outside see far more clearly than those in the inner circle.

Lisa

ScottBot · Jul 28, 2007

RaggedRobin said:
So you think that if one of those Pharisees repented then he wouldn't accept his repentance because he already had them in Hell?

Think Nicodemus.

ZACTAK · Jul 28, 2007

Beastt said:
Again I see the claim; rendered null and void by the insinuation that nonChristians aren't as good or worthy as Christians.

No matter who is in charge or what percentage of Christians are in the membership, if the site operates on principles of bigotry, then it's a site of bigotry and not one of Christianity.

I don't think the original intent of this site was for nonChristians to just be members, but for them to see Jesus and possibly be saved by Him... I don't think my ideals are bigoted at all.. I am not saying for all non-Christians to leave, I am simply saying they should not have leadership roles here.

Freodin · Jul 28, 2007

MartinM said:
Of course, Christians never tell non-Christians what we're supposed to believe

Well, some Christians try to tell non-Christians how to be non-Christians. They all fail horribly.

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