Astronomers should be sued for false advertizing. (3)

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Honestly RC, ...usual rant snipped...
Well, honestly Michael, why should I even bother responding to you when you have
  • gone to the absurd stance of denying the scientific definition of the transition zone?
  • denied that images of solar flares are images of solar flares?
  • etc.
Michael's iron surface idea completely debunked!
2nd December 2012
That post does not mention his denial of a definition. Astronomers observed that there is a gap between the chromosphere and the corona and called it the transition zone. Michael denies that this gap exists!
 
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Michael

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Well, honestly Michael, why should I even bother responding to you when you have....

...actually published real papers on these topics and read actual MHD textbooks? I don't know why RC. You're like an unarmed guy at a tank fight. You're like an atheist trying to debate Christian theology without ever reading the Bible. Since you've never read Alfven's book, you really have no idea what PC theory is about.

gone to the absurd stance of denying the scientific definition of the transition zone?

Not me. I simply deny that there is some magical "transition region" above the photosphere where the coronal loops are magically heated up. They're radiating at over a million degrees *before* they ever exit the surface of the photosphere.

denied that images of solar flares are images of solar flares?
That's obviously you're own strawman.


You didn't "debunk" anything. You spewed your own unpublished erroneous opinions, just like that nonsense about electrical discharges being impossible in plasma. You then cite yourself repeatedly hoping that nobody notices you failed to cite any author that used the term "impossible" with respect to electrical discharges in plasma.

You can't debunk something you don't even understand and repeatedly try to *misrepresent*.

That post does not mention his denial of a definition. Astronomers observed that there is a gap between the chromosphere and the corona and called it the transition zone. Michael denies that this gap exists!

I don't care what you think RC, the loops don't originate *above* the surface of the photosphere, they originate *under* that surface and come up through that surface at over a million degrees. There is no magical transition region in the sky, it's just a limb area above the surface of the photosphere where the loops become visible through all the "plasma atmosphere". So what? It's not an "important" region in terms of solar physics or solar atmospheric heating.
 
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Michael

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http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/latest/mpeg/latest_1024_1600.mpg

The 1600A image provides a nice shot of the discharge and shows that it originated from the active region (sunspot) in the lower hemisphere, and then moved *toward* the active region in the North.

That's one of the interesting types of events that can occur as the poles start to flip. The active regions become concentrated near the equator, and they start to electrically interact with each other.
 
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There are no actual simplified little "lines" in the first place. Magnetic fields form as a complete and full *continuum*.
Wow - now you deny that magnetic field lines are used in physics , Michael :p!
Magnetic fields are a complete and full *continuum*.
Magnetic field lines are a way to map magnetic fields. We use lines in a literal sense but only draw a small set of the infinite number of lines. They are actual lines representing the magnetic field.

They are the analogy of contour lines on a map.

Even a child can understand this, Michael : no magnetic field = no magnetic field lines. In a region where B = 0, there are no forces on a charged test particles and there are no magnetic field lines.

A null point is just a null point -and there no magnetic filed line can pass though it :doh:.
So theses are basic EM facts that I hope that you do not deny, Michael :
  1. Where there is no magnetic field there are no magnetic field lines.
  2. It is possible to have a magnetic field configuration where magnetic field lines cross a point where there is no magnetic field (a null point).
  3. Thus at the null point you have broken magnetic field lines because there is no magnetic field at a null point (Do I need a Duh here, Michael?).
The reconnection bit of MR comes when the magnetic filed changes which is described as the mapped field lines moving. They move across the null point. And as you know
  • They break because there is no magnetic field at a null point.
  • They reconnect because there is a magnetic field away from the null point.
FYI, Michael, I do not really agree with the term reconnection because as an ex-theoretical physics I know about magnetic field lines. But we are stuck with magnetic reconnection as the label for this phenomena (and I cannot think of a more precise term - "magnetic field reconfiguration around a null point" is just too long!)
 
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Michael

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Wow - now you deny that magnetic field lines are used in physics , Michael :p!

You spend an inordinate amount of time *misrepresenting* my actual statements. Christians (and most atheists around these parts) tend to at least *try* to be honest in the way they represent other peoples statements. You're one of the few exceptions. How do you justify such blatantly dishonest behavior?

Magnetic fields are a complete and full *continuum*.
Yep. In basic EM theory, when they describe "lines", they say the have no beginning and no ending. They have no source and no sink, therefore they don't "disconnect", nor "reconnect" to other lines.

Magnetic field lines are a way to map magnetic fields.
It's an oversimplifcation to use lines like that, just like we might use lines on topographical maps to designate changes in elevation. It doesn't mean that real lines exist on the ground at all those locations!

We use lines in a literal sense but only draw a small set of the infinite number of lines. They are actual lines representing the magnetic field.
Not Clinger. He tried to say they "begin and end" in the null as though the null has any "lines" in it to start with!:doh: It's devoid of magnetic energy so it's a *null*.

They are the analogy of contour lines on a map.
Ya, but those contour lines on topographical maps don't "disconnect" or reconnect.

Even a child can understand this, Michael : no magnetic field = no magnetic field lines. In a region where B = 0, there are no forces on a charged test particles and there are no magnetic field lines.
A child know that if B=0 there *are no lines there in the first place*!

A null point is just a null point -and there no magnetic filed line can pass though it :doh:.
Then they can't "Reconnect" in that null either! Doh!

The reconnection bit of MR comes when the magnetic filed changes which is described as the mapped field lines moving. They move across the null point.
No, they don't. If they did, it wouldn't be a Null. The "line strength" would be exactly zero in a null and they would still not "Begin" or "end" in the null.

And as you know...
  • They break because there is no magnetic field at a null point.
I don't "know" any such thing. The field strength falls to zero and nothing "disconnects" or "reconnects' in that null.

They reconnect because there is a magnetic field away from the null point.
The field originates around the source of the magnetic field, and the topology of the *whole field* (not just the null) changes as a result of the change in current at the source. The lines don't have a beginning or an ending. They don't *start* anywhere, certainly not in a null. They don't *end* anywhere, certainly not in a null. They don't *disconnect from*, nor reconnect to any other magnetic lines.

FYI, Michael, I do not really agree with the term reconnection because as an ex-theoretical physics I know about magnetic field lines.
No you don't. You know magnetic fields like you know electrical discharges in plasma, as is not at all.

But we are stuck with magnetic reconnection as the label for this phenomena (and I cannot think of a more precise term - "magnetic field reconfiguration around a null point" is just too long!)
None of that is actually true RC. The *reconnection* process is a process *in plasmas*. It results in the release of stored magnetic field energy *into* particle acceleration. It's a process of *energy release/transfer*. Without any charged particles to his name, Clinger could never *hope* to transfer any magnetic field energy into particle movement. All he demonstrated was variable magnetic fields in a vacuum *without* any "reconnection" in plasma.

Neither one of you have actually read a plasma physics textbook, so both of you are ignorant by choice. When did you intend to rectify that problem RC?
 
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You didn't "debunk" anything.
...snipped usual rants and insults...
You really and to go into the details of the science that is listed in
Michael's iron surface idea completely debunked! ?

Ok.

Pick some and show the scientific evidence that that you are correct rather than spewing your own unpublished erroneous opinions:
  1. 8th July 2009: Your hypothetical solid iron surface has been in thermal contact with at least one object that has consistently had a temperature large enough to vaporize iron for about 4.57 billion years.
  2. 17th April 2010: Why this iron crust thermodynamically impossible
  3. 17th April 2010: Iron Sun Surface Thermodynamically Impossible IV
  4. Michael's idea predicts that the Sun has no central energy source (and is thus hollow)!
  5. Dating from 26th September 2010: Solar temperatures increase with depth thus no iron surface!
  6. Michael analyzes a public relations image that has a processing artifact :doh:!!!!
  7. 17 Errors in Michael's site on the first page alone!
    Including the obvious delusion that light is emitted from under the photosphere, e.g. How can we detect the less than 1 photon per year from your iron crust?
    First asked 24 April 2010
  8. Errors in Michael's site XVIII (solar model explains lots)!
  9. Errors in Michael's site XIX (the Galileo gambit :), etc.)!
  10. Errors in Michael's site XX: an observation confirming the standard model!
  11. Errors in Michael's site XXI: iron ferrite ions do not exist!
  12. Errors in Michael's site XXII: Batteries do not "release free protons and electrons"!
  13. Errors in Michael's site XXIII: the photosphere is easily understood!
  14. Errors in Michael's site XXIV: The light we see is not from neon
  15. Errors in Michael's site XXV: gooey, insulating Si and crusty Ca layers do not exist!
  16. Michael's web site: Galileo observed light from below the photosphere "surface"!
  17. 14 Errors in Hubble's Satellite Evidence...
  18. 6 Errors in Running Difference Imaging...
  19. 7 errors in Sunquakes, etc. ...
  20. Michael's web site: 'I see bunnies in the clouds' about shockwaves!
  21. Michael's web site: ignoring the expert (Dr. Kosovichev)!
  22. etc. etc. etc.
I don't care what you think RC, the loops don't originate *above* the surface of the photosphere, they originate *under* that surface and come up through that surface at over a million degrees.
I do not care what I think either - what I do care is about you lying about what I think, Michael :doh:!
Coronal loops do originate below the surface of the photosphere. They then float up through the photosphere to poke out of the photosphere into the chromosphere, solar transition region and corona..

I do care about your displays of ignorance in case your fantasies infect other people, Michael:
The photosphere has a temperature of ~5700 K not "over a million degrees". Coronal loops at the top of photosphere contain plasma at ~5700 K. But they heat up rapidly with height above the photosphere as the TRACE spacecraft found.
Coronal loops: "coronal loops have a wide variety of temperatures along their lengths".
There is no magical transition region in the sky...
And there you go again with the idiocy of denying the existence of a definition, Michael!
Solar transition region
The solar transition region is a region of the Sun's atmosphere, between the chromosphere and corona.[1] It is visible from space using telescopes that can sense ultraviolet. It is important because it is the site of several unrelated but important transitions in the physics of the solar atmosphere: ...
 
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Michael

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One of the millions of nice images and movies of the Sun, Michael.
Pity about the lie about it being a "discharge".

Pity you lied about Dungey's use of that term as well as Peratt's *definition* of an electrical discharge in plasma. Have you read a book yet on MHD theory RC?
 
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Michael

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Pick some and show the scientific evidence that that you are correct rather than spewing your own unpublished erroneous opinions:

You're not even telling the truth yet RC. My papers *were* published, whereas your rants have never been published. See the *published* difference between us yet? Why should I debate someone that is so *blatantly* dishonest about the actual *facts*?

False. It's only been in thermal contact with some light, and relatively cool plasma near the surface. Again, my papers were published, your rants were not.
More personal unpublished rants from an *unpublished source*. Yawn. This is the same guy that told us that electrical discharges are impossible in plasma but can't name the author that used the term "impossible" with respect to electrical discharges in plasmas. It's the guy that can't handle Dungey's use of the term "electrical discharge" in relationship to solar flares.


Another blatant lie. I defy you to quote me where I made such any such claim. I won't even continue until you quote me or you retract your blatant lie.

If you can't be trusted to represent my statements *honestly* you're not worth my time. If you won't read a textbook on plasma physics, you have no business debating that topic with me, particularly since you're apparently reduced then to simply *lying* about what I actually said. :(

Put up or shut up. Quote me, or quit lying.
 
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You spend an inordinate amount of time *misrepresenting* my actual statements.
No - I spend a lot of time joking abut your fantasies, Michael :D!
That emphasizes how laughable they are.

In basic EM theory, ..
That is a "lie to children" taught to undergraduates - one that they really should see as a simplification because they only deal with bar magnet type situations.

In advanced EM theory (as in textbooks about MR and postgrad courses), that field lines have no beginning or ending is shown to be wrong by realizing some simple facts (expanded out to see if you can understand it rather then continuing with an irrelevant rant, Michael)
  • no magnetic field = no magnetic field lines.
    At a point or in a region where there is no magnetic field, there are no field lines. Such a point is called a null point.
  • A magnetic field line can cross a null point.
  • That magnetic field line does not exist at the null point - it is broken.
  • Change the magnetic field and field lines will cross the null point.
  • The field lines will break because there is no magnetic field at the null point :doh:.
  • The field lines will reconnect as they move away from the null point because there is a magnetic field away from the null point :doh:.
Also:
  • The magnetic field line is broken. It has a beginning. It has an end. This is better seen if you think about a null region rather than a null point.
  • There are no sources or sinks.
    There is a field line that enters the region around the null point that is balanced by a line field that exists the region.
And you go on again about the Wikipedia based fantasy that MR needs a plasma to happen. Magnetic reconnection in plasma is interesting. Magnetic reconnection in vacuum is real but trivial.
 
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Pity you lied about Dungey's use of that term as well as Peratt's *definition* of an electrical discharge in plasma.
Oh dear - you are blatantly lying, Michael :doh::
From Actual electrical discharges are impossible in plasma, etc.
11th October 2011: Peratt's definition of electrical discharge
This is ordinary electrical discharge - he gives the example of lightning and aurora.
The full text of the section is here: Peratt and Electrical Discharges in Cosmic Plasma

18th October 2011: Dungey's 'electric discharge' = high current density in magnetic reconnection
13th January 2011: Dungey's and Peratt's definition of discharge are different!
8th November 2011: Citing Dungey means that cause of solar flares is magnetic reconnection!

P.S. Michael: Have you learned the difference between a solid comet nucleus and a plasma yet?
S. Ibadov (2012)
This is double layers induced at the comet having an "electrical discharge potential". However double layers are "destroyed" rather than "discharged". And the abstract says this happens inside the nucleus not in plasma.

 
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Michael

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Oh dear - you are blatantly lying, Michael :doh::

You're projecting again, and failing to quote anyone but yourself again. Same denial dance, different day. What's with your stalking routine RC? None of your statements related to astronomy have ever been published.

From Actual electrical discharges are impossible in plasma, etc.
11th October 2011: Peratt's definition of electrical discharge
This is ordinary electrical discharge - he gives the example of lightning and aurora.

It is an *ordinary* electrical discharge *in plasma* which he defines as a *fast release of stored energy*. It's not remotely related to *ionization requirements*. You personally stuffed that requirement in there whereas Dungey and Peratt did not! You've never even read the book RC, whereas I have!


He never used the term "impossible" did he?


Dungey never used the term "impossible" either did he?

P.S. Michael: Have you learned the difference between a solid comet nucleus and a plasma yet?

A perfect example of an irrelevant distraction meant to ignore Dungey's use of the term *in* plasma, and *in* solar flares.

Which author used the term "impossible" with respect to electrical discharges in plasma RC? When are you going to read a book on MHD theory RC?
 
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Michael

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You wouldn't know since apparently you can't quote me about any "hollow" sun. All I hear from you are lies, lies and more lies about *my* beliefs. Cyberstalking seems to be your one and only claim to fame, along with *pure denial* of fact, starting with *your* claims about a "hollow" sun.

Michael's contribution was just his fantasy about a solid iron surface on the Sun based on processed images of solar flares above the photosphere. IOW a picture and an unscientific fantasy about the picture.

My beliefs were published, whereas your fantasies about my beliefs were never published nor could they ever be published since you've misrepresented them from day one, starting with your hollow sun nonsense. Bearing false witness isn't a nice thing to do RC.

Personally I am proud of publishing one paper on solid state physics which was not too bad. Relatively trivial but sound science.

It's pitifully trivial and irrelevant when talking about PC theory or anything related to solar physics. Your field of expertise seems to be in *misrepresenting* my beliefs, starting with *your* claims about a hollow sun. Quote me or quit lying RC.
 
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False. It's only been in thermal contact with some light, and relatively cool plasma near the surface.
Total fantasies about the Sun:
The photosphere has a temperature of ~5700.
The temperature has been measured to increase with depth
Thus 8th July 2009: Your hypothetical solid iron surface has been in thermal contact with at least one object that has consistently had a temperature large enough to vaporize iron for about 4.57 billion years.

17th April 2010: Why this iron crust thermodynamically impossible

Another blatant lie.
Quite a fantasy, Michael, because
Michael's idea predicts that the Sun has no central energy source (and is thus hollow)!
is about your idea's predictions not your predictions.
And total arrogance - you seem to think that you are the only one allowed to make up fantasies about your fantasies :p!

Put up or shut up. Quote the science, or quit making up fantasies, Michael.
 
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Michael

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I'm also still waiting for you to cite the name of the author that used the term "impossible" with respect to electrical discharges in plasma. I'm also waiting for you to tell me when I can expect you to actually *read* a textbook on plasma physics.
 
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My beliefs were published, ...more ranting snipped...
Your impossible fantasies were published in a crank paper, Michael.
Michael is proud of co-authoring paper on an easily debunked theory :eek:!

From Michael's iron surface idea completely debunked!:
Michael's site: Dr. Oliver Manuel was wrong!

It's pitifully trivial and irrelevant ...
We are not talking about whatever "PC theory" is (I hope this is not the non-existent plasma cosmology crank stuff).
I do not claim that my paper is relevant to solar physics.
Your fantasies contributed to that crank paper are not relevant to solar physics either.

What is relevant is background information.
You are
  • some IT guy.
  • with no acknowledged university-level education in science.
  • with a web site demonstrating your ignorance of or denial of even basic things like scientific definitions.
  • whose posts here continue that theme of ignorance/denial.
  • and has contributed a fantasy about an image to a crank paper.
I am
  • some IT guy.
  • with an acknowledged post-graduate education in science.
  • with no web site full of fantasies.
  • whose posts here at least try to back things up with science (and yes I know I fail in this sometimes!).
  • has published a trivial and scientifically sound paper.
 
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Total fantasies about the Sun:
The photosphere has a temperature of ~5700.

True

The temperature has been measured to increase with depth
False. During sunspot activity, we see *decreases* in surface temperature, often over *1000 degrees* cooler.

All *your* claims relate to *your* claim about the opacity of the photosphere. Unless it's "opaque", your claims don't actually apply.

Put up or shut up. Quote the science, or quit making up fantasies, Michael.
I did that already RC. I got my papers published. You're the one that keeps bearing false witness about my beliefs and making up your own personal *fantasies* like your claim about a hollow sun. I never made that claim, you blatantly bore false witness against me. How do you justify your blatantly false claims? Quote me about a hollow sun, or quit bearing false witness against me, one or the other.
 
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