Astral Projection and out of body experiences

Bombila said:

No individual has been able to even marginally convince me that astral projection is real. I have never seen a proper experiment that unambiguously supported that it is real. I think it is an imaginary and entirely mental experience, with no connection to material reality. I'm entirely open to proof - show me.

In fact - come here, and tell me something about my house, or what my cat looks like.

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You know, that is an idea! It never occurred to me, but I don't think astral projection is limited in the physical plane by distance or anything, so yeah, come here and talk to me mano a spiritu!

Well, I'm open-minded as to whether or not it is "real". I think it's more than likely a dream or hallucinatory state, but maybe not. I think it's pretty cool, either way.

But I agree, if it is real, there should be some simple experiments that could be performed to verify--like--here's one.

Can someone project into my garden shed and tell me what is sitting in the rear left corner?

on reincarnation...For we must needs die, and [are] as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect [any] person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him. 2 Sam 14:14

Bombila said:

No individual has been able to even marginally convince me that astral projection is real. I have never seen a proper experiment that unambiguously supported that it is real. I think it is an imaginary and entirely mental experience, with no connection to material reality. I'm entirely open to proof - show me.

In fact - come here, and tell me something about my house, or what my cat looks like.

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Let me ask you a question.

Are you really willing?
Are you willing to be the one to take on the Task of determining, once and for all, what is "The Truth"?
Are you willing to put everything you Believe and everything you think you know on the line; To risk everything in order to determine this truth?
And if you were to be convinced (find enough satisfactory evidence that fits your Criteria), Will you be willing to allow everyone believe you to be Delusional, a Lunatic, A Lair, or Worse if you were to tell anybody what you now know?

My Question is, Would you come back here and openly Admit that you are now a "Believer" when all you have to offer is your Testomony to your experinces?

How much is your "Proof" worth to you?

TheyShallExpel said:

on reincarnation...For we must needs die, and [are] as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; neither doth God respect [any] person: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him. 2 Sam 14:14

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Correct. We are as water. And all Water runith to the sea to become the Rain and to be once more used to grow the Next Harvest.

For nothing is forever Lost. Everything returns to the Cycle that Purpetually Reuses everything and wastes nothing.

DrkSdBls said:

Correct. We are as water. And all Water runith to the sea to become the Rain and to be once more used to grow the Next Harvest.

For nothing is forever Lost. Everything returns to the Cycle that Purpetually Reuses everything and wastes nothing.

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I was most definitaley disagreeing with reincarnation. Once you are dead you are dead, until Christ returns. Therefore it is seamless, you die, you are raised (obviously this is only true to those who are saved)...read the Word.

If you can come to my house and describe it to me. I'll fess up to it. IF it is done.

Parmenio said:

If you can come to my house and describe it to me. I'll fess up to it. IF it is done.

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Keep in mind that distances play a part in this. I've never spoken to anyone who could go more than maybe a few miles from thier boddies before your own defenses kick in and you wake up

TheyShallExpel said:

I was most definitaley disagreeing with reincarnation. Once you are dead you are dead, until Christ returns. Therefore it is seamless, you die, you are raised (obviously this is only true to those who are saved)...read the Word.

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Then why use a Quote from the Bible that can be interpreted as otherwise?

Parmenio said:

If you can come to my house and describe it to me. I'll fess up to it. IF it is done.

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Somehow, I doubt your answer is being entirely truthful.

But, If you really have any willingness to except what it means, then you are one step closer to understanding how we feel.

We have all been where you are now. We have asked for "Proof" and, in one way or another, we have gotten it.

But, when we come to discussions such as this and openly present our experinces, we are Called Delusional or Liars (Or Both!) We are berated and treated as Fools and Con-men, accused of believing in only what we want to believe because "Personal Experince and Testamony isn't Evidence" or "Because we are only trying to exploit the Gullible."

And yet, you ask for this?

In the End, we just don't care about "Proving us Right" Or "Proving Everybody else Wrong!" At least, not to those who have already made up their minds of what they want to believe cause there's no showing them.

You don't have to believe everything we say. The only thing we ask of you is that you Believe our Experinces were real without all the "Without Proof, you're all Wrong" Crap. Asking us to "Prove" them to you is pointless.


But, if you really desire someone here to give you the "Proof" you asked for, all you have to do is Posted your Name, Address and Phone Number here and someone'll be sure to get around to doing just that.

Afterall, How do you expect someone to locate your house if that person doesn't know you personally or where to live. I mean, You can't expect someone to go door-to-door asking "Are you Parmenio from the CF who challenged me to come visit your Home? Well here I am!"

Steezie said:

Keep in mind that distances play a part in this. I've never spoken to anyone who could go more than maybe a few miles from thier boddies before your own defenses kick in and you wake up

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Also, keep in mind that not everyone can/chooses Global Travel. I can't extend more the a few yards and even then only under very special Circumstances. But, I do have another Speciality that's ...... Harder .... to explain.

I think astral projection is real.

A long time ago I had a friend who moved across country and this friend said they visited me by out of body and I beleive them.

I can't recall any scripture that forbids this and for me, that's the test basis. But if it is used to hurt or make people sad, then I tkink it's bad. Perhaps this ability can be used for good, like crime fighting.

DrkSdBls said:

Let me ask you a question.

Are you really willing?
Are you willing to be the one to take on the Task of determining, once and for all, what is "The Truth"?
Are you willing to put everything you Believe and everything you think you know on the line; To risk everything in order to determine this truth?
And if you were to be convinced (find enough satisfactory evidence that fits your Criteria), Will you be willing to allow everyone believe you to be Delusional, a Lunatic, A Lair, or Worse if you were to tell anybody what you now know?

My Question is, Would you come back here and openly Admit that you are now a "Believer" when all you have to offer is your Testomony to your experinces?

How much is your "Proof" worth to you?

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That seems to be a very dramatic manner of insinuating that proof is available, if I want it. My point is that proof should be simple, if astral projection is so common, so easily learned, double blind experiments should be simple to set up, whereupon any scientifically mnded person would say: "Wow, that really works!", thus obviating the need for me to suffer name-calling. And for the single unbeliever like myself, just a description of my environment or my cat or something unique to me would go a long way towards being a proof, at which point I would be perfectly willing to admit that unless you have access to some superior satellite gear, astral projection seems to work.

By the way, you read (style-wise) remarkably like a very dedicated Rosicrucian I once knew.

Parmenio said:

so yeah, come here and talk to me mano a spiritu!

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You want the spirt to talk to your hand? That's kinda rude.

<offtopic pet peeve>
"Mano" means "hand", not "man".
</offtopic pet peeve>

Bombila said:

That seems to be a very dramatic manner of insinuating that proof is available, if I want it. My point is that proof should be simple, if astral projection is so common, so easily learned, double blind experiments should be simple to set up, whereupon any scientifically mnded person would say: "Wow, that really works!", thus obviating the need for me to suffer name-calling. And for the single unbeliever like myself, just a description of my environment or my cat or something unique to me would go a long way towards being a proof, at which point I would be perfectly willing to admit that unless you have access to some superior satellite gear, astral projection seems to work.

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You missed my point by a hair.

You asked for Proof that you can accept as personal confirmation, which is not the same Proof that can be reasonably accepted by any "scientifically minded person." At least, it's about as convincing as Pictures of UFOs and Casts of Big Foot's Feet. No matter what kind of Proof to offer, if somebody desired to Wave it away, they will. That's all a Nay-sayer needs to do; Use Uncertainly to cast as much doubt in the minds of the potential Skeptic as possible. As long as the same Phenomenon can be repeated with "Smoke and Mirrors," then it must all be done with Smoke and Mirrors (or some other means by which to explain it away.)

I was once a Skeptic who wouldn't believe anything unless I was shown Proof. I was given the proof that I asked for and it convinced me, yet when I come to places like this and tell people like you what I now know, I'm told again and again that Such "Proof" is Worthless and Meaningless. Just as I have done, You also ask for proof. Only difference here is that I'm not personally able to give you the same proof that was Given to me.

Also, no one says that such a Practice is "so common" or "so easily learned." It's more common then you would think but nothing is ever "so easily learned." As with any Skill, there are varying degrees of Difficulty and requires a level of dedication that not just anyone is willing to give (myself included.) Nothing is really all that simple. It takes years and years of High Education for Astrophysicists, Neurosurgeons, and Cybernetic Engineers to fully understand their own Fields. Now, imagine such a Scientist trying to give a 3 min overview of their Field to someone with hardly a High School Education. Even a Simple Demonstration of their reputed Science could be viewed with as much Wonder and Understanding as a Magician Putting on a Magic Show.

I regret Emencely that I am unable to personally provide you with the Proof you desire. I hope that you do find it for all I can do is encourge you to persue this Question much more deeply and actively rather instead of just saying "Show me proof." I am of the opinion that you'll never find out the truth unless you pursue it yourself. Otherwise, the only thing you'll ever be able to do is take another's word for it. Regardless of how much you trust the person and have all the reasons to believe them, there's nothing more convincing to you then reaching your own conclusions from your own Work. If you come to the same conclusions as another, fine! If you don't, then you take on the burden of believing in your own Truth over another's.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

By the way, you read (style-wise) remarkably like a very dedicated Rosicrucian I once knew.

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Not me. I have no such affilation.

TheyShallExpel said:

I was most definitaley disagreeing with reincarnation. Once you are dead you are dead, until Christ returns. Therefore it is seamless, you die, you are raised (obviously this is only true to those who are saved)...read the Word.

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what about the laws of conservation of matter and energy? It seems like nothing ever dies, rather it just changes. Now if you are attached to the notion that the arrangement of energy and matter that makes up your unique personality survives the grave, to me that would be an unknown. I don't really care if my pattern survives as a coherent matrix. However, if astral projection is true, then it would tend to indicate that your pattern may survive as a coherent matrix. OR maybe the ability to engage in astral projection is only a function of a LIVING human brain.