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Astheworldturns.com website

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seebs

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geocajun said:
All living things have souls seebs. Souls are the material principle of life.

Animals too?

I lack the ability to detect souls, so I can't really comment. I have no useful way of forming an opinion on the question.

If a child misscarries naturaly, then its just that, an act of nature - thus no crime committed.

And yet, for the most part, people don't even notice miscarriages within the first week or two, let alone mourn them. What changes?

the reference to Unique DNA was only used to show that its an unique life from the mother.

Well, sure.
 
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geocajun

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seebs said:
Animals too?

I lack the ability to detect souls, so I can't really comment. I have no useful way of forming an opinion on the question.
Yes, all living things, including plants, have souls.
A "soul" is the material principal of life. Human souls are spirits.
The question some ask is are animal souls spirits or not? and that is an unknown.
 
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seebs

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geocajun said:
Yes, all living things, including plants, have souls.
A "soul" is the material principal of life. Human souls are spirits.
The question some ask is are animal souls spirits or not? and that is an unknown.

Okay, your terminology is different from mine, and I'm not sure I understand it.

Anyway, as I understand it, God creates a unique soul or spirit for each person. However, I do not know when these are created, or whether all those spontaneous natural miscarriages had associated eternal souls which pass on into an afterlife. Without that information, it's very hard for me to form an opinion on the rest of the issue and be sure of it.
 
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Susan

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geocajun said:
Yes, all living things, including plants, have souls.
A "soul" is the material principal of life. Human souls are spirits.
The question some ask is are animal souls spirits or not? and that is an unknown.

Amen.
 
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BAChristian

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I just wanted to post what the Church officially says about this issue. Just FYI...

seebs, thank you for sharing your opinions in this matter.

2270 Human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception. From the first moment of his existence, a human being must be recognized as having the rights of a person - among which is the inviolable right of every innocent being to life.72


Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.73

My frame was not hidden from you, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the earth.74

2271 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion, that is to say, abortion willed either as an end or a means, is gravely contrary to the moral law:

You shall not kill the embryo by abortion and shall not cause the newborn to perish.75

God, the Lord of life, has entrusted to men the noble mission of safeguarding life, and men must carry it out in a manner worthy of themselves. Life must be protected with the utmost care from the moment of conception: abortion and infanticide are abominable crimes.76

2272 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A person who procures a completed abortion incurs excommunication latae sententiae,"77 "by the very commission of the offense,"78 and subject to the conditions provided by Canon Law.79 The Church does not thereby intend to restrict the scope of mercy. Rather, she makes clear the gravity of the crime committed, the irreparable harm done to the innocent who is put to death, as well as to the parents and the whole of society.

2273 The inalienable right to life of every innocent human individual is a constitutive element of a civil society and its legislation:

"The inalienable rights of the person must be recognized and respected by civil society and the political authority. These human rights depend neither on single individuals nor on parents; nor do they represent a concession made by society and the state; they belong to human nature and are inherent in the person by virtue of the creative act from which the person took his origin. Among such fundamental rights one should mention in this regard every human being's right to life and physical integrity from the moment of conception until death."80

"The moment a positive law deprives a category of human beings of the protection which civil legislation ought to accord them, the state is denying the equality of all before the law. When the state does not place its power at the service of the rights of each citizen, and in particular of the more vulnerable, the very foundations of a state based on law are undermined. . . . As a consequence of the respect and protection which must be ensured for the unborn child from the moment of conception, the law must provide appropriate penal sanctions for every deliberate violation of the child's rights."81

2274 Since it must be treated from conception as a person, the embryo must be defended in its integrity, cared for, and healed, as far as possible, like any other human being.

Prenatal diagnosis is morally licit, "if it respects the life and integrity of the embryo and the human fetus and is directed toward its safe guarding or healing as an individual. . . . It is gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent of a death sentence."82

2275 "One must hold as licit procedures carried out on the human embryo which respect the life and integrity of the embryo and do not involve disproportionate risks for it, but are directed toward its healing the improvement of its condition of health, or its individual survival."83

"It is immoral to produce human embryos intended for exploitation as disposable biological material."84 "Certain attempts to influence chromosomic or genetic inheritance are not therapeutic but are aimed at producing human beings selected according to sex or other predetermined qualities. Such manipulations are contrary to the personal dignity of the human being and his integrity and identity"85 which are unique and unrepeatable.
 
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geocajun

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seebs said:
Okay, your terminology is different from mine, and I'm not sure I understand it.

Anyway, as I understand it, God creates a unique soul or spirit for each person. However, I do not know when these are created, or whether all those spontaneous natural miscarriages had associated eternal souls which pass on into an afterlife. Without that information, it's very hard for me to form an opinion on the rest of the issue and be sure of it.
The terminology I used can be found in any major dictionary... such as Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: 1soul
Pronunciation: 'sOl
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English soule, from Old English sAwol; akin to Old High German sEula soul
Date: before 12th century
1 : the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life
2 a : the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe b capitalized, Christian Science :
[size=-1]GOD [/size]1b
3 : a person's total self
4 a
: an active or essential part b : a moving spirit : [size=-1]LEADER[/size]
5 a : the moral and emotional nature of human beings b : the quality that arouses emotion and sentiment c : spiritual or moral force : [size=-1]FERVOR[/size]
6 : [size=-1]PERSON[/size]
7 : [size=-1]EXEMPLIFICATION[/size], [size=-1]PERSONIFICATION[/size] <she is the soul of integrity>
8 a : a strong positive feeling (as of intense sensitivity and emotional fervor) conveyed especially by black American performers b :
(bold emphasis mine)
 
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epiclesis

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This is my FAVORITE topic of debate. I had to admit I like debating with pro-choice people.


seebs, I have a question for you... Why don't you think abortion is murder?

Do you think it's not human or something?


(I'm leaving on vacation tomorrow for 2 months, and won't have too much internet access, but I'll try to remember to log back on! I'm curious your thoughts!)


:prayer:
 
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nyj

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princess_ballet said:
I'm pro-life, but that is just sick. Yes, it is the truth, but not the way to go.

It puts a bad name on all pro-lifers and lowers us to their standards.

Sorry, that was just distastful and not to mention illegal!
I don't know it is was illegal or not. I find it hard to think that IF it really were the "As The World Turns" website, that it would've been fixed by now. Rather, what may have happened is that the ATWT website didn't renew their domain name, a pro-life group purchased it and then pointed it towards their site.

So, before we jump to making judgements on how wrong and illegal this was, let us think about it rationally first.
 
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Debi1967

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Well that was shocking to see. And i have seen arguments in here ranging from what if they were dead before and those are the pictures you are seeing? to they shouldn't have hacked into the website. In truth it doesn't matter. Like it doesn't matter if those were dead before that is what they look like after an abortion is done so why even bring it up as a defense. And no it is not right that they have used in any way ATWT to promote the cause. But the truth is it happens and there are some that will go to any extreme to get their point across and come up with justification for it. If it helps to change one person's mind and stop them then well at least some good came out of it. I wouldn't be able to go through with it after seeing those.
In Christ
Debi
 
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Amandine

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As I think someone brought up before, this website might never have been for the soap opera!! As the World Turns could mean, look at whats happening in our world...as the world turns, more innocents die.
So yes, it's highly doubtful a major media site would have been hacked this long.
-Catherine
 
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BAChristian

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nyj said:
I don't know it is was illegal or not. I find it hard to think that IF it really were the "As The World Turns" website, that it would've been fixed by now. Rather, what may have happened is that the ATWT website didn't renew their domain name, a pro-life group purchased it and then pointed it towards their site.

So, before we jump to making judgements on how wrong and illegal this was, let us think about it rationally first.
nyj, I already stated a few pages back that it wasn't. I posted whois info and everything.

I also just edited the title.

Sorry for the confusion folks.
 
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theseed

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:scared: :Cry: I can't imagine how doctors can so such a thing. Did you know that the age of viability gets lower all the time, the age when premies can survive outside the womb (uterus). I think its at 22 weeks right now.

In the news, Bush was able to appoint a Judge to a federal seat by by passing congress. Abortion is the number one reason I will vote Republican.
 
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Acceptance

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Those pics are so sad and disturbing.

I just couldn't help thinking, when people were talking about 'when a person gets his soul', that God doesn't even want us wasting the seed. The Seed. He doesn't want us wasting the seed, because it is through the seed that He makes human life. If God was generous enough to bless you with a baby, who are we to supersede His miracle and take it's life away.

*On a side note, I do feel there are exceptions such as medical necessity, where the baby would not survive and neither would the mother. If mom will die as a result of keeping the child, I personally feel it's similary to any other medical life preserving measures such as a ventilator, bypass surgeries, etc.
 
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