Ask me anything

[mozo41]

are not the wages of sin death ... was not Jesus dead for three days ...

 

[mozo41]

did Jesus then drink wine in the garden that night ... how does one fit the sins of the word in a cup ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

are not the wages of sin death ... was not Jesus dead for three days ...

Jesus took on our sins (sort of like a transferrence) and then He was punished (died) in our place for our sins. This is the "substitionary atonement." An exchange happens. Jesus took on our sin and died in our place so as to give us a chance at redemption. To wipe the past slate clean and walk in holiness and righteousness and conform to the image of Christ in this life. We become more like Christ in this life because of the exchange that happens when we repent of our sins and believe in Jesus's death and resurrection and we ask Him to save us from spiritual death (i.e. the Lake of Fire).


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[Jamminontha1]

No symbolism here. The actual sins of the world were within that cup and Jesus took them upon himself. It is why he reviled the idea of taking the cup in the first place. But seeing there was no other way to save us, He took the cup and He was then wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities afterwards by being whipped and beaten and then finally crucified.

Maybe this animated music video will help you to understand the exchange that happens between Christ and mankind.

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Yeah. The sins of the world were in the cup, but blood had to be spilled for our sins. John 18:11. I can see your simple meaning, but there is also a deeper meaning as well.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

did Jesus then drink wine in the garden that night ... how does one fit the sins of the word in a cup ...

With God, nothing is impossible. He can do anything.
But the substitionary atonement is not a new concept. In the Old Testament, we learn about how the sins of the Israelites was transferred to the head of a goat (See Leviticus 16:21).



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[Jamminontha1]

did Jesus then drink wine in the garden that night ... how does one fit the sins of the word in a cup ...

Jesus did not drink wine in the garden. It doesn't say he did. How does one fit the sins of the world in a cup? How do you fit all your thoughts in your brain without it enlarging or exploding? There's a lot that we don't know, but what is known is that it was done.

 

[mozo41]

how do you then transfer the sin of the world into a liquid and then fit this into a cup ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Yeah. The sins of the world were in the cup, but blood had to be spilled for our sins. John 18:11. I can see your simple meaning, but there is also a deeper meaning as well.

I agree that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

Here is a chronological break down:

#1. Jesus (Who is God and the spotless Lamb) took on our sins in the Garden.
#2. Jesus was whipped and beaten in our place (Isaiah says he was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed).
#3. God the Father laid the full Judgment upon the Son on the cross. It is why Jesus felt a separation from the Father (even though He was not separated from Him).
#4. Jesus was crucified (shedding His blood) upon the cross and paid the penalty for our sins.
#5. Jesus was in the grave three days and three nights (72 hours exactly).
#6. Jesus rose from the grave.
#7. After Jesus told Mary not to touch him, Jesus ascended to the Father (And became our Heavenly High Priest and mediator between God the Father and man) so as to offer us the free gift of salvation. This gift was to be Himself. For Jesus intercedes on our behalf by what He has done for us.
#8. Jesus today can live inside of us and redeem us.
This is why the fruit of Christ will be evident in our lives and not evil or bad fruit. For Jesus is the source of our life who lives inside of us (See 1 John 5:12). Jesus works in our lives to overcome sin after we repented and accept Him as our Savior (See Romans 13:14).


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[mozo41]

of course he did not drink wine in the garden seeing the cup is symbolic ... I only asked to make the point seeing you referenced the wine at the last super

 

[mozo41]

It is why Jesus felt a separation (even though He was not separated from Him).

"Where art thou ?"

 

[Jamminontha1]

of course he did not drink wine in the garden seeing the cup is symbolic ... I only asked to make the point seeing you referenced the wine at the last super

Oh. I think I got lost in translation along the thread haha.

 

[Jamminontha1]

I agree that without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins.

Here is a chronological break down:

#1. Jesus (Who is God and the spotless Lamb) took on our sins in the Garden.
#2. Jesus was whipped and beaten in our place (Isaiah says he was wounded for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities and by his stripes (whip marks) we are healed).
#3. God the Father laid the full Judgment upon the Son on the cross. It is why Jesus felt a separation from the Father (even though He was not separated from Him).
#4. Jesus was crucified (shedding His blood) upon the cross and paid the penalty for our sins.
#5. Jesus was in the grave three days and three nights (72 hours exactly).
#6. Jesus rose from the grave.
#7. After Jesus told Mary not to touch him, Jesus ascended to the Father (And became our Heavenly High Priest and mediator between God the Father and man) so as to offer us the free gift of salvation. This gift was to be Himself. For Jesus intercedes on our behalf by what He has done for us.
#8. Jesus today can live inside of us and redeem us.
This is why the fruit of Christ will be evident in our lives and not evil or bad fruit. For Jesus is the source of our life who lives inside of us (See 1 John 5:12). Jesus works in our lives to overcome sin after we repented and accept Him as our Savior (See Romans 13:14).


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I never thought about the significance of Jesus asking Mary not to touch her.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

It is why Jesus felt a separation (even though He was not separated from Him).

"Where art thou ?"

Yes, it was a transference. Jesus is a type of Adam who died in man's place.
But do you believe Jesus was separated from the Father on the cross?

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[Bible Highlighter]

I never thought about the significance of Jesus asking Mary not to touch her.

It was because Jesus was holy at this point and He still needed to finish His plan of redemption by entering the temple in Heaven before the Father (Thereby being our mediator between God the Father and man).


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[mozo41]

she thought him first to be the gardener ( man who tills the ground )

 

[mozo41]

no, but in the mind of Jesus yes

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for the separation Jesus felt with the Father on the cross: Well, I do not believe any actual separation took place between God the Father and the Son of God (or the Living Word) because if that did happen, then you would have two separate gods in existence within the universe and that is simply just not possible. For the Lord our God is eternally one God and have always existed as three distinct persons and yet they are also one.


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[Bible Highlighter]

no, but in the mind of Jesus yes

I am not so sure about that. Jesus quoted a Psalm of David whereby the point of that Psalm was that we are not separated from God (even when we might feel far from Him).

So Jesus might have felt a separation from the Father, but Jesus knew according to the Scriptures that was not possible in His case.


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[mozo41]

neither do I but Jesus perceived it so ... he drank from the cup/ate from the tree, which is to break the law ... the wages of it being death ...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

neither do I but Jesus perceived it so ... he drank from the cup/ate from the tree, which is to break the law ... the wages of it being death ...

Uh, no. Jesus did not break any laws. He merely took on our sins as a form of transferrence. If Jesus sinned at any point, He could not be our spotless Lamb or passover.


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