Ask Im_A

[nesian]

[fundamentalist impersonation] Seeing that you're an atheist, your life must be devoid of meaning, and headed towards the Abyss of Nonexistence. How comes that you don't shoot yourself up with drugs, kill your neighbour and just do what you please? Isn't that what evolution teaches? The survival of the fittest? Shouldn't you seek to kill the weak? [/impersonation]

I want an ask a pantheist thread!!

i'll jump in on the bandwagon because rides are fun.

go ahead. give it your best, your most intellectual, your most simplistic, your most offensive.

If morality is only a relative social construct, on what basis could or should anyone ever move to interfere with cultures that practice apartheid, female circumcision, cannibalism, or ethnic cleansing? Are you happy? Are all atheists ignorant twaats that go on gay-shagging rampages?

 

[brinny]

what do you want on your gravestone?

 

[Im_A]

If morality is only a relative social construct, on what basis could or should anyone ever move to interfere with cultures that practice apartheid, female circumcision, cannibalism, or ethnic cleansing?

apartheid is oppression against the liberty of a racial group from a regime of another racial group. that seems to be a good reason to interfere because it is oppression against the liberty of people and the freedom of others.

female circumcision, if that's the woman choice, then i see no reason to interfere. if its forced by a culture upon women, then again it is infringing on the rights of the woman to make a choice on the matter.

cannibalism just as long as one isn't murdering the individual to have a noon snack, then why should one interfere in it?

ethnic cleansing, the same reason as apartheid.

morality as a relative social construct doesn't mean that just anything goes unchecked. i personally see morality as a social construct in regards to how the individual lives their lives out. but quite a few of your examples, are an outside agent forcing an ideal, a life on to the person that takes away their freedom and liberty and well-being. the two don't compare.

Are you happy?

indeed.

Are all atheists ignorant twaats that go on gay-shagging rampages?

nope. i'm heterosexual. i'm atheist. i wouldn't call myself ignorant, but i'm sure there are things i'm ignorant of.

 

[Im_A]

what do you want on your gravestone?

i really don't think about that too much. i like the idea of cremation to be honest. i'd rather have my family and loved ones, sitting at home remembering the good times and even the bad times, but be at home, instead of a nursing home for the dead. but i guess at that point, one is dead, what does it really matter what it says? the legacy i leave won't be remembered on cement, but it'll be remembered in the minds of others.

but if i do get a gravestone, i wouldn't mind an encarved picture of, assuming by that time, i'll be married and have kids, but an engravement of that would be the best.

if i die alone, carve a picture of me smiling while flipping the camera off would be just fine for me.

 

[brinny]

do you attend funerals?

 

[Eudaimonist]

These questions seem to be aimed at a generic "atheist", so I'll offer a response.

If morality is only a relative social construct

I personally don't view morality as only a relative social construct. It ideally aims at some human good that is not arbitrarily chosen. Female circumcision could be opposed on the basis that it will reduce the quality of life of the girl who is subjected to this treatment.

Are you happy?

Sure.

That's not to say that I can't be disappointed by turns of events, but when one faces such situations with a positive attitude, I'd have to say that happiness is present.

Are all atheists ignorant twaats that go on gay-shagging rampages?

You don't have high enough clearance for that information.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Eudaimonist]

what do you want on your gravestone?

"My other resting place is a cryonic suspension unit"

If that is not applicable, I'd like the symbol of eudaimonia that I had designed for the Fellowship of Reason.

do you attend funerals?

Sure. I don't see why I wouldn't. Atheists grieve and remember too.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[brinny]

what do you say to someone who is grieving the loss of a loved one, or someone that's lost a child in a tragic accident?

what would you say to the "Elephant Man"?

 

[Druweid]

what do you want on your gravestone?

"Awaiting occupancy..."

-- Druweid

"May your coffin be made of 100 year old oak, and may it come from the tree I plant for you tomorrow"

- Old Irish Blessing

 

[brinny]

How about this one?

I lived. I died. I returned to dust from whence I cameth. Period. End of story.

 

[Eudaimonist]

How about this one?

I lived. I died. I returned to dust from whence I cameth. Period. End of story.

I would shorten that to "I lived".


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[brinny]

I would shorten that to "I lived".


eudaimonia,

Mark

ok, you "lived"...then what?

 

[Eudaimonist]

ok, you "lived"...

No, I lived. No need for scare quotes.

then what?

Then what what? Life is what matters.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Druweid]

I would shorten that to "I lived".

I like it. That, along with your symbol of eudaimonia would make a wonderful sentiment. I believe there's eloquence in simplicity.

-- Druweid

 

[Im_A]

do you attend funerals?

usually only the ones of my family members, or when my one of my best friend's mother passed away, but yes.

what do you say to someone who is grieving the loss of a loved one, or someone that's lost a child in a tragic accident?

not too much. words are useless in those circumstances. all i can say is, i'm really sorry about your loss and grieve with them. it does work from time to time without saying things to make them feel better. when my ex-fiancee's mother died while her and i was still together, she asked me what my opinion was of her ever seeing her mom again, and i said, "i don't know." and then she said that was more helpful than all the normal stuff that she hears people say to her. so in a way it taught me a little lesson when it comes to dealing with someone who has had a terrible loss. grieve with them instead of lead them.

what would you say to the "Elephant Man"?

well if he was ok with having a beer, i'd offer him a beer from my fridge. so the question would be, "want to have a cold one?"

 

[nesian]

If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd, why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?

If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life? Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?

In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?

Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?

 

[Eudaimonist]

If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd, why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?

Are you assuming that atheists are existentialists?

If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life?

The life that was lived, which is an end-in-itself. (Note that ultimate means final, not necessarily eternal.)

Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?

Notice how you view life as merely a means to some external end.

In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?

Do mosquitoes or pigs ask philosophical questions, as you are doing now?

Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?

Billy Graham isn't a hero of mine, so perhaps this is a bad example. But people do differ to the extent to which they value life.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Im_A]

If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd, why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?

that makes no sense. i don't believe in an ultimate meaning to our existence but what i do believe is we all have to find the meaning for our own existence and it is our duty and responsibility to ourselves to find and make that.

If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life? Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?

why does life need a universal meaning to be meaningful? why would you, me, or anyone need some ultimate purpose to our existence to thus think to ourselves, "ahh! life has a meaning."

and what other alternative does one really have? in my opinion, a meaning of life defined for the pleasurment of some god is the same as having no meaning to one's existence.

In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?

easy. we're human beings, and not a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs. how much more complicated does one, or you need to make it to think of yourself as worth without a god being there?

and what does immortality really have to do with this? the idea of life afterr death doesn't make this life have any more meaning or take away any meaning. the idea of immortality in of itself is a different stage of existence, so while i don't believe in immortality, i can't see what use the idea would be either way. a belief doesn't change the fact that your a human being.

Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?

none really and even with absolute morals, there isn't any difference between the two but the choices they make in their own lives. they are human beings and the only difference any two human beings have in my opinion is the choices they make in their lives. this still rings true regardless of the position one holds in regards to absolute morals.

 

[BlueCelt]

If all of life is meaningless, and ultimately absurd, why bother to march straight forward, why stand in the queue as though life as a whole makes sense?

It is interesting that you mention the word absurd. I actually am a bit of an existentialist in the school of absurdism. Here's a pertinent bit from wikipedia. I can't post links yet but its real easy to find.

For some, suicide is a solution when confronted with the futility of living a life devoid of all purpose, as it is only a means to quicken the resolution of one's ultimate fate. For Albert Camus, in The Myth of Sisyphus, suicide is not a worthwhile solution because if life is veritably absurd, then it is even more absurd to counteract it; instead, we should engage in living and reconcile the fact that we live in a world without purpose.
For Camus, the beauty that people encounter in life makes it worth living. People may create meaning in their own lives, which may not be the objective meaning of life but still provides something for which to strive. However, he insisted that one must always maintain an ironic distance between this invented meaning and the knowledge of the absurd lest the fictitious meaning take the place of the absurd.

I choose to create meaning in my life because of the beauty I see and experience in it. Life is sweet and amazing.

If everyone completely passes out of existence when they die, what ultimate meaning has life? Even if a man's life is important because of his influence on others or by his effect on the course of history, of what ultimate significance is that if there is no immortality and all other lives, events, and even history itself is ultimately meaningless?

Do you need immortality? I don't. When I'm dead my time here is over. My meaning in life comes from here and now. What am I doing in my time here. Everything may be meaningless in the long run sure, but what do I care? Me and all the people I love will be gone. Heck humanity will probably be gone someday. Life ends.

In a universe without God or immortality, how is mankind ultimately different from a swarm of mosquitoes or a barnyard of pigs?

This was answered best by Eudaimonist above me I think. Mankind has sentience. We have complex language. We create machines. We are a species that is dominant on our planet amongst complex organisms. In a purely species viewpoint, I eat pigs so they are my food, and I use pesticide on mosquitoes to keep them away. That is how I am different.

Without absolute morals, what ultimate difference is there between Saddam Hussein and Billy Graham?

Well their choices are massively different. Billy Grahm devoted his life to talking about God. Saddam Hussein took control of a country in a brutal way and continued his brutality towards others. I go by the golden rule (I'm a Kantian) and see that he violated do unto others as you would have done unto you. Ultimately though he violated others autonomy and that makes him worse then Grahm.

Best,

Blue

 

[nesian]

Why does humanity seem to have an innate desire and need to worship something, or someone? Why is there such a universal religious sense within humanity?

Isn’t it a bit extreme to assert "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have complete knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe. Maybe God dwells somewhere in the universe you don’t know of or have not been to? Is that possible?

What about the evidence of design in all of creation? It is obvious that anything that is designed has to have an intelligent creator. For example, a computer never came about by mere accident, but had to have been thought out and planned by an intelligent designer. It is the same with creation, and more so, as the natural world is far more complicated than anything humanity can create.

How do you explain the changed lives of millions of people throughout history who testify to a life changing experience with Jesus Christ?

How do we account for the historical Person of Jesus Christ? He has made such an impact upon history that we even measure our calendar by Him. 2000 years on and millions still follow Him.

Where does all of the incredibly complex information come from that is stored within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself.

Where does all the matter in the universe come from?