Ask An Adventist - Adventism Question #1

[jorgfe]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

 

[catlover]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

Adventists are Christians-I daresay they are more on target than the average conservative Christians because as a whole they do not worship the Republican party or believe in nationalism.

 

[jorgfe]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

Adventists are Christians-I daresay they are more on target than the average conservative Christians because as a whole they do not worship the Republican party or believe in nationalism.

Ok. Let's try again. The question was not whether Adventists are Christians. The question was, "Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?" There are Adventists who are Christians, just like there are Mormons who are Christians.

From time to time the question will be asked, "Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?" I propose that the wrong question is being asked. We should be asking, "Is Seventh-day Adventism Christian?" That is a much easier question to answer.

The issue is truth in labeling. It's what's inside that counts. Seventh-day Adventism wants to distinguish itself as the one true church, "the Remnant Church", and excommunicate the rest of the Christian Church. Adventism states that all other churches are an abomination to God.

I saw that since the second angel proclaimed the fall of the churches, they have been growing more and more corrupt. They bear the name of being Christ's followers; yet it is impossible to distinguish them from the world. Ministers take their texts from the Word of God, but preach smooth things. To this the natural heart feels no objection. It is only the spirit and power of the truth and the salvation of Christ that are hateful to the carnal heart. There is nothing in the popular ministry that stirs the wrath of Satan, makes the sinner tremble, or applies to the heart and conscience the fearful realities of a judgment soon to come. Wicked men are generally pleased with a form of piety without true godliness, and they will aid and support such a religion.

Said the angel, "Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body. The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. The spirit and friendship of the world are at enmity with God. When the truth in its simplicity and strength, as it is in Jesus, is brought to bear against the spirit of the world, it at once awakens the spirit of persecution. Very many who profess to be Christians have not known God. The natural heart has not been changed,and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan's faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name." (Early Writings, p. 273)

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. (Early Writings, pp. 56)​

On the other hand, Seventh-day Adventism wants to be one of the boys. It wants to be included in the family of Christian churches. It wants to be the one true church, "the Remnant Church", when it is convenient, and it wants to be a member of the larger Christian community when that is convenient.

Seventh-day Adventist General Conference President Jan Paulsen recently stated it this way,

"We shun the perception of being arrogant, and we don't want to come across as being overly exclusive, but at the same time we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; that while a believer can be saved as a Catholic, I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community." (Jan Paulsen, The Theological Landscape – Adventist Review - October, 2002)​

Other denominational statements are more forthright.

Regardless of the pretext, or how righteous the cause may appear, separation from the visible remnant [the SDA church] is apostasy from the body of Christ. (E.R. Bacchus, president of the Ontario Conference of SDA, Canada, in Messenger, October, 1994, p. 2)​

The local [SDA] church becomes the ‘port of entry’ to the kingdom of God. (North American Division Officers, in Adventist Review, October 1, 1992, p. 23)​

At the same time the Adventist Church is actively courting the World Evangelical Alliance, the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, and the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) in an effort to be accepted by the mainstream Christian community.

What is equally interesting is how the Adventist Church warms up to Roman Catholicism when it is to its advantage to do so, but then "stabs it in the back" at the same time with the other hand!

"Although it is true that there was a period, in the life of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when the denomination took a distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint, and the term 'hierarchy' was used in a pejorative sense to refer to the papal form of church governance, that attitude on the church's part was nothing more than a manifestation of widespread anti-popery attitude among conservative Protestant denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical trash heap so far as the SDA Church is concerned." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, EEOC vs PPPA and GC, Civil Case #74-2025 CBR, 1975)

"When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near." (Testimonies, 1885, Vol 5, p. 451)​

Seventh-day Adventism, from its inception, has "defined out" every other church of Christendom. Remember, Adventism steadfastly maintains it is the only true church, and that all the rest of what the Christian world considers to be the Body of Christ are "apostate Protestantism".

What Seventh-day Adventists consistently miss is that no true Christian is willing to assign the title "Christian" to anyone simply on the basis of belonging to a certain church, whether that church is Protestant or Catholic. One can be a Methodist or a Lutheran and yet not be a Christian. True Christians, whether they are Protestant or Catholic, know that one becomes a Christian when one meets certain personal faith requirements. Church membership has nothing to do with conversion to Christ.

Most Christians agree that two things are necessary to be a Christian:

1. To be a Christian, one must be born again. Both the Old and New Testaments, as well as the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles sets forth one common fact. That fact is that there are two classifications of people: the saved and the unsaved.
   
   To be born again, one must have passed from death to life. This experience is unmistakable to anyone who has experienced it. My experience tells me that this concept is foreign to nearly every Seventh-day Adventist. When they are honest they will tell you something like this: "Well, I’m doing the best I can to please God; I love Jesus Christ; I’m trying to live a life in accordance with the teachings of scripture." None of those statements has anything to do with being born again. They speak of what the person would like to become, not what he has become — a great difference.
   
   Adventism tells us:
   
   "Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading." (Christ Object Lessons, page 155)
   
   "As long as man is full of weakness–for of himself he cannot save his soul–he should never dare to say, "I am saved." (Selected Messages, vol 1, page 314)
   
   God's Word tells us:
   
   "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God: that ye may know that ye have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
2. A Christian must understand that he is powerless to save himself. Nothing can be more repugnant to God than to encounter fallen men who suggest to Him that they are able to bootstrap themselves into righteousness. One who would be saved must first understand that he is lost.
   
   Adventism teaches:
   
   "To be sure, God does not need to investigate the records in order to learn or to determine who is eligible to be saved. It is for the benefit of all created beings that the facts with respect to each person's fate should be known, as an assurance to all that justice has been done and as a guarantee of the eternal stability of divine government. The Bible writers speak of "books" in which God keeps a record of character -- of good and evil deeds as measured by a person's knowledge of, and voluntary relationship to, divine grace and God's revealed will." (SDA Bible Commentary, Volume 10, page 669)
   
   "In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated." (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)

Are Seventh-day Adventists Christian?

I suggest that any Adventists who are Christians must have become so in spite of the clear teachings of Adventism. I am not suggesting this isn’t possible. However, I would give this advice to a Seventh-day Adventist who is convinced he meets the two requirements I have listed above: Leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church and affiliate with a denomination, church, or group which ascribes to these same two principles.

Gilbert Jorgensen

 

[Mankin]

You present good points, many of which that I and my fellow progressives would agree to. However, a denomination does not define our entire religious experience. We may agree with several teachings within the denomination but disagree with its elitist notions. If Lutheranism could move away from luther's anti semnitism, then Adventism can move away from elitism. In truth, Adventist ideas on other churchs is similar to conservative Catholic views on other churchs.

 

[catlover]

Ok. Let's try again. The question was not whether Adventists are Christians. The question was, "Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?" There are Adventists who are Christians, just like there are Mormons who are Christians.

From time to time the question will be asked, "Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?" I propose that the wrong question is being asked. We should be asking, "Is Seventh-day Adventism Christian?" That is a much easier question to answer.

The issue is truth in labeling. It's what's inside that counts. Seventh-day Adventism wants to distinguish itself as the one true church, "the Remnant Church", and excommunicate the rest of the Christian Church. Adventism states that all other churches are an abomination to God.

I saw that since the second angel proclaimed the fall of the churches, they have been growing more and more corrupt. They bear the name of being Christ's followers; yet it is impossible to distinguish them from the world. Ministers take their texts from the Word of God, but preach smooth things. To this the natural heart feels no objection. It is only the spirit and power of the truth and the salvation of Christ that are hateful to the carnal heart. There is nothing in the popular ministry that stirs the wrath of Satan, makes the sinner tremble, or applies to the heart and conscience the fearful realities of a judgment soon to come. Wicked men are generally pleased with a form of piety without true godliness, and they will aid and support such a religion.

Said the angel, "Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body. The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. The spirit and friendship of the world are at enmity with God. When the truth in its simplicity and strength, as it is in Jesus, is brought to bear against the spirit of the world, it at once awakens the spirit of persecution. Very many who profess to be Christians have not known God. The natural heart has not been changed,and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan's faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name." (Early Writings, p. 273)

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. (Early Writings, pp. 56)​

On the other hand, Seventh-day Adventism wants to be one of the boys. It wants to be included in the family of Christian churches. It wants to be the one true church, "the Remnant Church", when it is convenient, and it wants to be a member of the larger Christian community when that is convenient.

Seventh-day Adventist General Conference President Jan Paulsen recently stated it this way,

"We shun the perception of being arrogant, and we don't want to come across as being overly exclusive, but at the same time we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; that while a believer can be saved as a Catholic, I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community." (Jan Paulsen, The Theological Landscape – Adventist Review - October, 2002)​

Other denominational statements are more forthright.

Regardless of the pretext, or how righteous the cause may appear, separation from the visible remnant [the SDA church] is apostasy from the body of Christ. (E.R. Bacchus, president of the Ontario Conference of SDA, Canada, in Messenger, October, 1994, p. 2)​

The local [SDA] church becomes the ‘port of entry’ to the kingdom of God. (North American Division Officers, in Adventist Review, October 1, 1992, p. 23)​

At the same time the Adventist Church is actively courting the World Evangelical Alliance, the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, and the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) in an effort to be accepted by the mainstream Christian community.

What is equally interesting is how the Adventist Church warms up to Roman Catholicism when it is to its advantage to do so, but then "stabs it in the back" at the same time with the other hand!

"Although it is true that there was a period, in the life of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when the denomination took a distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint, and the term 'hierarchy' was used in a pejorative sense to refer to the papal form of church governance, that attitude on the church's part was nothing more than a manifestation of widespread anti-popery attitude among conservative Protestant denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical trash heap so far as the SDA Church is concerned." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, EEOC vs PPPA and GC, Civil Case #74-2025 CBR, 1975)

"When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near." (Testimonies, 1885, Vol 5, p. 451)​

Seventh-day Adventism, from its inception, has "defined out" every other church of Christendom. Remember, Adventism steadfastly maintains it is the only true church, and that all the rest of what the Christian world considers to be the Body of Christ are "apostate Protestantism".

What Seventh-day Adventists consistently miss is that no true Christian is willing to assign the title "Christian" to anyone simply on the basis of belonging to a certain church, whether that church is Protestant or Catholic. One can be a Methodist or a Lutheran and yet not be a Christian. True Christians, whether they are Protestant or Catholic, know that one becomes a Christian when one meets certain personal faith requirements. Church membership has nothing to do with conversion to Christ.

Most Christians agree that two things are necessary to be a Christian:

1. To be a Christian, one must be born again. Both the Old and New Testaments, as well as the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles sets forth one common fact. That fact is that there are two classifications of people: the saved and the unsaved.
   
   To be born again, one must have passed from death to life. This experience is unmistakable to anyone who has experienced it. My experience tells me that this concept is foreign to nearly every Seventh-day Adventist. When they are honest they will tell you something like this: "Well, I’m doing the best I can to please God; I love Jesus Christ; I’m trying to live a life in accordance with the teachings of scripture." None of those statements has anything to do with being born again. They speak of what the person would like to become, not what he has become — a great difference.
   
   Adventism tells us:
   
   "Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading." (Christ Object Lessons, page 155)
   
   "As long as man is full of weakness–for of himself he cannot save his soul–he should never dare to say, "I am saved." (Selected Messages, vol 1, page 314)
   
   God's Word tells us:
   
   "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God: that ye may know that ye have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
2. A Christian must understand that he is powerless to save himself. Nothing can be more repugnant to God than to encounter fallen men who suggest to Him that they are able to bootstrap themselves into righteousness. One who would be saved must first understand that he is lost.
   
   Adventism teaches:
   
   "To be sure, God does not need to investigate the records in order to learn or to determine who is eligible to be saved. It is for the benefit of all created beings that the facts with respect to each person's fate should be known, as an assurance to all that justice has been done and as a guarantee of the eternal stability of divine government. The Bible writers speak of "books" in which God keeps a record of character -- of good and evil deeds as measured by a person's knowledge of, and voluntary relationship to, divine grace and God's revealed will." (SDA Bible Commentary, Volume 10, page 669)
   
   "In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated." (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)

Are Seventh-day Adventists Christian?

I suggest that any Adventists who are Christians must have become so in spite of the clear teachings of Adventism. I am not suggesting this isn’t possible. However, I would give this advice to a Seventh-day Adventist who is convinced he meets the two requirements I have listed above: Leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church and affiliate with a denomination, church, or group which ascribes to these same two principles.

Gilbert Jorgensen

Oh it's the ABC prayer and you are "saved"...I think that's pretty limiting and believe salvation is an ongoing process...

 

[sentipente]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

Have you ever wondered why Christians want Buddhists to become Christians?

 

[jorgfe]

You present good points, many of which that I and my fellow progressives would agree to. However, a denomination does not define our entire religious experience. We may agree with several teachings within the denomination but disagree with its elitist notions. If Lutheranism could move away from luther's anti semnitism, then Adventism can move away from elitism. In truth, Adventist ideas on other churchs is similar to conservative Catholic views on other churchs.

Unfortunately that is a "pipe dream" that I too had as an evangelical Adventist. It was the fruit of my naivity about the way Adventism is really organized and how change is effected. I wish you luck, but Adventism is nothing like Lutheranism. Martin Luther actually had to leave the Roman Catholic Church in order to achieve his objectives. You will too.

Consider the following statements:

Quote:

"The (ASI - Adventist Laymen's Services and Industries) convention concluded with a banquet in which Robert Muller, associate secretary of the United Nations, was the featured speaker. He is called the United Nations' "prophet of hope" and has a vibrant and optimistic philosophy of life. His wife, Margarita, accompanied him, and they discovered that there is another universal and truly catholic organization, the Seventh-day Adventist Church." (GC President Neal Wilson, From the President: Cooperation and Interaction, Adventist Review, March 5, 1981, page 3)
​

Quote:

"Structure. At the local conference level the Seventh-day Adventist Church has a representative form of government. Above that level the polity of the Seventh-day Adventist Church is hierarchical: Authority flows downward and members in local congregations have virtually no voice. Above that level, the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a closed, self-operating, and self-perpetuating system similar to the Roman Catholic Church, in which those in authority are not responsible to lower echelons. Above the local conference level, those in authority are not elected by, representative of, or administratively accountable to, local congregations or the membership at large." (Raymond Cottrell, associate editor of the SDA Bible Commentary, Spectrum, March 1984, page 42)
​

Quote:

"Next to the Roman Catholic Church, the Adventist church is the most centralized of all the major denominations in the country." (Judge William T. Hart, 1984, presiding over a court case involving the Harris Pine Mills, an asset owned by the SDA church)
​

Quote:

"Our work is not to denounce the Roman Catholic Church." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, Pacific Union Recorder, February 18, 1985)
​

Quote:

"Although it is true that there was a period, in the life of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when the denomination took a distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint, and the term 'hierarchy' was used in a pejorative sense to refer to the papal form of church governance, that attitude on the church's part was nothing more than a manifestation of widespread anti-popery attitude among conservative Protestant denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical trash heap so far as the SDA Church is concerned." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, EEOC vs PPPA and GC, Civil Case #74-2025 CBR, 1975)
​

I want you to read that second statement closely:

"Structure ... the Seventh-day Adventist Church is a closed, self-operating, and self-perpetuating system similar to the Roman Catholic Church, in which those in authority are not responsible to lower echelons.

"lower echelons" means you and me.

I'm sorry to "rain on your parade" but you are living in a fantasy world. The hiearchy of the Seventh-day Adventist Church has not changed in the past 145 Years, 6 Months, and 15 Days. That brings us up to today.

If you want to change things you will actually have better success with the Mission Catalyst route.

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 1844​

 

[JonMiller]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

Remnant Theology...

JM

 

[Byfaithalone1]

Remnant Theology...

JM

BINGO!

BFA

 

[Avonia]

BINGO!

BFA

Except for scope, this is similar to "You have to be Christian to be saved."

 

[BobRyan]

Here is a question to ask your Adventist friends:

Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?
​

Gilbert Jorgensen

It has been 164 Years, 1 Months, and 16 Days since October 22, 184​

How about this one --
Why do Baptists want Catholics to become Baptist?

The argument is not that you can not be saved in the church you are in now -- rather the argument is 2Thess 2 position about "Love of the truth" in the end of time. In fact at any time since as we see in John 14:1-5 "I AM the way the TRUTH and the life".

Or as Christ said in John 17:17 "Sanctify them in Thy truth thy WORD is truth".

It is a love of the truth that says "I want to know more".

We share truth with others who are themselves motivated by the Holy Spirit to "want to know more truth".

Christ said in Matt 28 "Make disciples of all nations... teaching them to observe ALL that I commanded you".

You shall "know the truth and the truth shall set you free" every new aspect of truth received is new freedom gained in Christ who IS the Truth.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Man-ofGod]

Ok. Let's try again. The question was not whether Adventists are Christians. The question was, "Why do Adventists want Christians to become Adventists?" There are Adventists who are Christians, just like there are Mormons who are Christians.

From time to time the question will be asked, "Are Seventh-day Adventists Christians?" I propose that the wrong question is being asked. We should be asking, "Is Seventh-day Adventism Christian?" That is a much easier question to answer.

The issue is truth in labeling. It's what's inside that counts. Seventh-day Adventism wants to distinguish itself as the one true church, "the Remnant Church", and excommunicate the rest of the Christian Church. Adventism states that all other churches are an abomination to God.

I saw that since the second angel proclaimed the fall of the churches, they have been growing more and more corrupt. They bear the name of being Christ's followers; yet it is impossible to distinguish them from the world. Ministers take their texts from the Word of God, but preach smooth things. To this the natural heart feels no objection. It is only the spirit and power of the truth and the salvation of Christ that are hateful to the carnal heart. There is nothing in the popular ministry that stirs the wrath of Satan, makes the sinner tremble, or applies to the heart and conscience the fearful realities of a judgment soon to come. Wicked men are generally pleased with a form of piety without true godliness, and they will aid and support such a religion.

Said the angel, "Nothing less than the whole armor of righteousness can enable man to overcome the powers of darkness and retain the victory over them. Satan has taken full possession of the churches as a body. The sayings and doings of men are dwelt upon instead of the plain, cutting truths of the Word of God. The spirit and friendship of the world are at enmity with God. When the truth in its simplicity and strength, as it is in Jesus, is brought to bear against the spirit of the world, it at once awakens the spirit of persecution. Very many who profess to be Christians have not known God. The natural heart has not been changed,and the carnal mind remains at enmity with God. They are Satan's faithful servants, notwithstanding they have assumed another name." (Early Writings, p. 273)

I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children. (Early Writings, pp. 56)
​

On the other hand, Seventh-day Adventism wants to be one of the boys. It wants to be included in the family of Christian churches. It wants to be the one true church, "the Remnant Church", when it is convenient, and it wants to be a member of the larger Christian community when that is convenient.

Seventh-day Adventist General Conference President Jan Paulsen recently stated it this way,

"We shun the perception of being arrogant, and we don't want to come across as being overly exclusive, but at the same time we believe that being Seventh-day Adventists has direct bearing on our salvation; that while a believer can be saved as a Catholic, I would risk my whole spiritual life and salvation were I to leave what I am now and join any other community." (Jan Paulsen, The Theological Landscape – Adventist Review - October, 2002)
​

Other denominational statements are more forthright.

Regardless of the pretext, or how righteous the cause may appear, separation from the visible remnant [the SDA church] is apostasy from the body of Christ. (E.R. Bacchus, president of the Ontario Conference of SDA, Canada, in Messenger, October, 1994, p. 2)
​

The local [SDA] church becomes the ‘port of entry’ to the kingdom of God. (North American Division Officers, in Adventist Review, October 1, 1992, p. 23)
​

At the same time the Adventist Church is actively courting the World Evangelical Alliance, the World Alliance of Reformed Churches, and the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) in an effort to be accepted by the mainstream Christian community.

What is equally interesting is how the Adventist Church warms up to Roman Catholicism when it is to its advantage to do so, but then "stabs it in the back" at the same time with the other hand!

"Although it is true that there was a period, in the life of the Seventh-day Adventist Church, when the denomination took a distinctly anti-Roman Catholic viewpoint, and the term 'hierarchy' was used in a pejorative sense to refer to the papal form of church governance, that attitude on the church's part was nothing more than a manifestation of widespread anti-popery attitude among conservative Protestant denominations in the early part of this century and the latter part of the last, and which has now been consigned to the historical trash heap so far as the SDA Church is concerned." (Neal Wilson, General Conference President, EEOC vs PPPA and GC, Civil Case #74-2025 CBR, 1975)

"When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near." (Testimonies, 1885, Vol 5, p. 451)
​

Seventh-day Adventism, from its inception, has "defined out" every other church of Christendom. Remember, Adventism steadfastly maintains it is the only true church, and that all the rest of what the Christian world considers to be the Body of Christ are "apostate Protestantism".

What Seventh-day Adventists consistently miss is that no true Christian is willing to assign the title "Christian" to anyone simply on the basis of belonging to a certain church, whether that church is Protestant or Catholic. One can be a Methodist or a Lutheran and yet not be a Christian. True Christians, whether they are Protestant or Catholic, know that one becomes a Christian when one meets certain personal faith requirements. Church membership has nothing to do with conversion to Christ.


Most Christians agree that two things are necessary to be a Christian:

1. To be a Christian, one must be born again. Both the Old and New Testaments, as well as the teaching of Jesus Christ and the apostles sets forth one common fact. That fact is that there are two classifications of people: the saved and the unsaved.
   
   To be born again, one must have passed from death to life. This experience is unmistakable to anyone who has experienced it. My experience tells me that this concept is foreign to nearly every Seventh-day Adventist. When they are honest they will tell you something like this: "Well, I’m doing the best I can to please God; I love Jesus Christ; I’m trying to live a life in accordance with the teachings of scripture." None of those statements has anything to do with being born again. They speak of what the person would like to become, not what he has become — a great difference.
   
   Adventism tells us:
   
   "Those who accept the Saviour, however sincere their conversion, should never be taught to say or to feel that they are saved. This is misleading." (Christ Object Lessons, page 155)
   
   "As long as man is full of weakness–for of himself he cannot save his soul–he should never dare to say, "I am saved." (Selected Messages, vol 1, page 314)
   
   God's Word tells us:
   
   "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God: that ye may know that ye have eternal life." (1 John 5:13)
2. A Christian must understand that he is powerless to save himself. Nothing can be more repugnant to God than to encounter fallen men who suggest to Him that they are able to bootstrap themselves into righteousness. One who would be saved must first understand that he is lost.
   
   Adventism teaches:
   
   "To be sure, God does not need to investigate the records in order to learn or to determine who is eligible to be saved. It is for the benefit of all created beings that the facts with respect to each person's fate should be known, as an assurance to all that justice has been done and as a guarantee of the eternal stability of divine government. The Bible writers speak of "books" in which God keeps a record of character -- of good and evil deeds as measured by a person's knowledge of, and voluntary relationship to, divine grace and God's revealed will." (SDA Bible Commentary, Volume 10, page 669)
   
   "In the last generation God gives the final demonstration that men can keep the law of God and that they can live without sinning. God leaves nothing undone to make the demonstration complete. The only limitation He puts on Satan is that he may not kill the saints of God. He may tempt them, he may harass and threaten them; and he does his best. But he fails. He cannot make them sin. They stand the test, and God puts His seal on them. Through the last generation of saints God stands fully vindicated." (M.L. Andreasen The Sanctuary Service, Review and Herald, 1969 printing, pp. 318-19)

Are Seventh-day Adventists Christian?

I suggest that any Adventists who are Christians must have become so in spite of the clear teachings of Adventism. I am not suggesting this isn’t possible. However, I would give this advice to a Seventh-day Adventist who is convinced he meets the two requirements I have listed above: Leave the Seventh-day Adventist Church and affiliate with a denomination, church, or group which ascribes to these same two principles.

Gilbert Jorgensen

Your looking too deep in to the instiution and not concentrating on the practice. No instituion is perfect, therefore, no one persons comment can account for the belief of all SDA. Were loyal to what scripture sais, and it just so happens that agrees with the main theology of the SDA church. As SDA, we know that being SDA does gaurentee you salvation. Its whats in your heart that counts. That is why a catholic can come to Christ with out being an SDA. That is why most SDA members know, (atleast the ones I come into contact with), that the Bible is the ulitmate authority, over what our pasters or congregation or anyone sais. As it is written:

"For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect."

We have to assume then, that even there will be a degree of comprimise with in our own church from Satins Demons. We have to fall back on the word for the truth. Anyone who does that, and practices it in his heart, will be saved.

With that said, because we believe that "currently" the SDA church has the truth as it applies to scripture, therefore is important to share that truth even with our christian brothers who may unknowingly be doing Satins bidding. Ultimately, Satin wants to recruit everyone of us in his army, and he can do that through disinformation. Therefore, I suggest, the remnan is not the institution, its the people who obey the laws of God through there love for Jesus that will be saved. So therefore, the current beliefs for SDA is "christian" oriented. And our relationship with God is "Christian." THe instiution is just there for organizational purposes, nothing more.

 

[Avonia]

the Bible is the ulitmate authority, over what our pasters or congregation or anyone sais.

You are the ultimate authority on your relationship with your Father. You have a direct line.

 

[BobRyan]

, because we believe that "currently" the SDA church has the truth as it applies to scripture, therefore is important to share that truth even with our christian brothers.

True. The work of Satan is to keep truth away from us - because he knows that the more truth we have -- the more freedom we hav in Christ and what He has done for us in the Gospel.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

You are the ultimate authority on your relationship with your Father. You have a direct line.

It is true that each of us "must choose you this day whom you will serve" and we must "each one stand before the judgment seat of Christ" 2Cor 5:10.

But God is the one who is judge - it is He who either confirms that we are a child of God (Rom 8:16) or convicts that we are not (John 16). His Word it the "rule" for all faith and doctrine 2Tim 3:16.

We see this in the NT saints in Acts 17:11 "They studied the scriptures daily to SEE IF those things spoken to them by Paul - were so"

in Christ,

Bob