Ask a Pagan

[Bookofknowledge]

...but I do believe he exists. I believe in Allah, but I do not worship him.

10:84
Musa said: "O my people! If you sincerely believe in Allah, then put your trust in Him, if you are really Muslims."

10:39
Nay! They do not believe that which they cannot grasp, for they have not yet seen its prophecy fulfilled. The same way those who passed before them disbelieved. But see what was the end of the wrongdoers!

2:8
There are some people who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" yet they are not true believers.

2:9
They try to deceive Allah and the believers. However, they deceive none except themselves yet they do not realize it.

2:10
There is a disease of deception in their heart; and Allah lets their disease increase, and they shall have painful punishment for the lies they have told.

2:11
When it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on earth," they say: "We make peace."

2:12
Be aware! They are the ones who make mischief but they do not realize it.

2:13
When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe" they sarcastically ask: "Should we believe like fools?" Be aware! They themselves are the fools, if only they could understand.

2:14
When they meet the believers they say: "We are believers," but when they are alone with their shaitans, they say: "We are really with you, we were only mocking the believers."

2:15
Allah will throw back their mockery on them and leave them alone in their trespasses; so they wander to and fro like blind.

2:16
These are the people who barter guidance for error: but their bargain is profitless and they are not going to be guided.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

The Divine, the Supreme Force, the Force that all Gods and Goddesses are an aspect of.



Well, there have been a lot of posts, by me and others, that explain a great deal of our beliefs... There are also threads that speak about our religion and beliefs. www.religioustolerance.org is also a good resource. I suggest you explore those resources for information, since for me to detail every aspect of my religion and beliefs would be redundant and overkill.

Who is my God? Morpheous, Eros, Ra, Jupiter, Celtic Gods, Egyptian Gods, Indian and Eastern Gods... The first two are the male aspects in my Pantheon, so I work with them quite often. My Goddesses are Celtic, Greek, Native American, Roman... However, they are all aspects of the Divine, and the Divine is the force that I honor most.

Jerusha

what makes it possible for you to assume you can travel in two boats at the same time?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

One can believe and not follow...

Jerusha

This type of believe is not acceptable/risky for example when one live in a country they have to abide by the law of land they can not say we will not follow

 

[Bookofknowledge]

We're speaking of beliefs, not boats.

Jerusha

When one claim they follow all gods then one can imagine they have many boats to sail in this ocean of world.

It sounds as if you have many boats and you choose yourself which boat to use when a situation arrives by claiming you believe in all gods but let me remind, you will not be able to switch boats if incase there is a storm in the middle of ocean.

 

[Krysia]

10:84
Musa said: "O my people! If you sincerely believe in Allah, then put your trust in Him, if you are really Muslims."

10:39
Nay! They do not believe that which they cannot grasp, for they have not yet seen its prophecy fulfilled. The same way those who passed before them disbelieved. But see what was the end of the wrongdoers!

2:8
There are some people who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day" yet they are not true believers.

2:9
They try to deceive Allah and the believers. However, they deceive none except themselves yet they do not realize it.

2:10
There is a disease of deception in their heart; and Allah lets their disease increase, and they shall have painful punishment for the lies they have told.

2:11
When it is said to them: "Do not make mischief on earth," they say: "We make peace."

2:12
Be aware! They are the ones who make mischief but they do not realize it.

2:13
When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe" they sarcastically ask: "Should we believe like fools?" Be aware! They themselves are the fools, if only they could understand.

2:14
When they meet the believers they say: "We are believers," but when they are alone with their shaitans, they say: "We are really with you, we were only mocking the believers."

2:15
Allah will throw back their mockery on them and leave them alone in their trespasses; so they wander to and fro like blind.

2:16
These are the people who barter guidance for error: but their bargain is profitless and they are not going to be guided.

Bookofknowledge:

You need to think outside of the box a little. Morningstar is recognizing that all paths are valid, as all deities are but aspects of the Divine. However, he has stated that he does not worship Allah. As I bolded above, your Allah calls Muslims, who follow that path, to worship Him alone. As morningstar does not follow that path, he is not called upon to worship Him alone; however that doesn't mean that he can't acknowledge the existence of Allah.

Blessings,
Krysia

 

[Krysia]

This type of believe is not acceptable/risky for example when one live in a country they have to abide by the law of land they can not say we will not follow

I'm sorry, are you actually equating religion with the law of the land?

You're right! All of the martyrs were evil fools! They should not have willingly died for their beliefs, because those beliefs went against the law of the land!

 

[Krysia]

When one claim they follow all gods then one can imagine they have many boats to sail in this ocean of world.

It sounds as if you have many boats and you choose yourself which boat to use when a situation arrives by claiming you believe in all gods but let me remind, you will not be able to switch boats if incase there is a storm in the middle of ocean.

I think you're a little confused.

We acknowledge that ALL paths lead to the Divine; however we do not follow EVERY path. We follow the path and God(s)/Goddess(es) that speak truth to our hearts. There is no conflict for us, because we follow our belief systems, yet acknowledge that other belief systems speak truth to others.

The Divine is too complex to be limited and too vast to be stuffed into one little human religion.

Bright Blessings,
Krysia

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Bookofknowledge:

You need to think outside of the box a little. Morningstar is recognizing that all paths are valid, as all deities are but aspects of the Divine. However, he has stated that he does not worship Allah. As I bolded above, your Allah calls Muslims, who follow that path, to worship Him alone. As morningstar does not follow that path, he is not called upon to worship Him alone; however that doesn't mean that he can't acknowledge the existence of Allah.

Blessings,
Krysia

What type of understanding is this which allows a person to believe the existence of Allah yet not follow the commands of Allah or even read what Allah has revealed to Prophets?

What is the matter with the people who recognize the path of Al-Islam as valid yet they deviate by following other paths? How can they claim they do not worship Allah after acknowledging Al-Islam is a valid path?


87:1
Glorify the name of your Rabb, the Most High,

87:2
Who has created all things and perfected them.

87:3
Who has set their destinies and guided them.

87:4
Who brings forth green pasture,

87:5
then reduces it to black rubbish.

87:6
Soon We shall make you recite Our revelations so you shall forget none of them

87:7
except what Allah wills. Surely He knows what is open and what is hidden.

87:8
We shall make it easy for you to follow the easy way.

87:9
Therefore remind, surely reminder does benefit.

87:10
He who fears Allah will heed the reminder,

87:11
and he who is unfortunate will avoid it.

87:12
The one who will avoid, shall burn in the gigantic fire,

87:13
where he shall neither die nor live.

87:14
The one who will take admonition and purify himself shall be successful,

87:15
who remembers the name of his Rabb and prays.

87:16
But O men! You prefer the life of this world;

87:17
while the Hereafter is better and everlasting.

87:18
Surely the same was said in the earlier scriptures;

87:19
the scriptures of Ibrahim (Abraham) and Musa (Moses).

 

[Krysia]

What type of understanding is this which allows a person to believe the existence of Allah yet not follow the commands of Allah or even read what Allah has revealed to Prophets?

An understanding that is not limited by religious bias

What is the matter with the people who recognize the path of Al-Islam as valid yet they deviate by following other paths? How can they claim they do not worship Allah after acknowledging Al-Islam is a valid path?

Nothing is the matter with them. They simply found a different way to spiritually experience the Divine. Again, they believe that Allah is but one face/aspect of the Divine. All paths lead to the Divine. The right path is the one that is right for you.

In love and light,
Krysia

 

[Bookofknowledge]

An understanding that is not limited by religious bias



Nothing is the matter with them. They simply found a different way to spiritually experience the Divine. Again, they believe that Allah is but one face/aspect of the Divine. All paths lead to the Divine. The right path is the one that is right for you.

In love and light,
Krysia

88:17
Do they not look at the camels, how they were created?

88:18
The heaven, how it was raised high?

88:19
The mountains, how they were firmly set?

88:20
And the earth, how it is spread out?

88:21
So keep on giving admonition, for you are an admonisher

88:22
not a taskmaster over them.

88:23
As for those who turn their backs and disbelieve,

88:24
Allah will punish them with the mighty punishment.

88:25
Surely to Us is their return,

88:26
then surely it is for Us to take their account.

 

[Krysia]

88:17
Do they not look at the camels, how they were created?

88:18
The heaven, how it was raised high?

88:19
The mountains, how they were firmly set?

88:20
And the earth, how it is spread out?

88:21
So keep on giving admonition, for you are an admonisher

88:22
not a taskmaster over them.

88:23
As for those who turn their backs and disbelieve,

88:24
Allah will punish them with the mighty punishment.

88:25
Surely to Us is their return,

88:26
then surely it is for Us to take their account.

As I don't follow your path, either, simply quoting passages from your Holy Book holds little relevance for me. But thank you for sharing your beliefs. I am open to you actually responding to my statements with your own thoughts.

Blessed Be,
Krysia

 

[Bookofknowledge]

As I don't follow your path, either, simply quoting passages from your Holy Book holds little relevance for me. But thank you for sharing your beliefs. I am open to you actually responding to my statements with your own thoughts.

Blessed Be,
Krysia

89:1
By the morning,

89:2
and the ten nights (first ten days of Dhul-Hijja),

89:3
the even and the odd,

89:4
and the night when it departs!

89:5
Is there not in these an oath (enough evidence) for those who use their common sense?

89:6
Have you not seen how your Rabb dealt with 'Ad?

89:7
The residents of Iram, the city of lofty pillars,

89:8
the like of which had never been built in other cities.

89:9
And with the people of Thamud who hewed out their dwellings in the rocks of the valley?

89:10
And with Fir'on (Pharaoh) the owner of stakes?

89:11
They all transgressed beyond bounds in their cities,

89:12
and committed great mischief therein.

89:13
Therefore, your Rabb let loose on them His scourge of torment.

89:14
Surely your Rabb is ever watchful.

 

[Dennis Moore]

Krysia: As I don't follow your path, either, simply quoting passages from your Holy Book holds little relevance for me. But thank you for sharing your beliefs. I am open to you actually responding to my statements with your own thoughts.

Bookofknowledge: [Quotes Koran exttensively ... again].

I think this exchange tells you everything you need to know, Krysia ...

 

[Krysia]

89:1
By the morning,

89:2
and the ten nights (first ten days of Dhul-Hijja),

89:3
the even and the odd,

89:4
and the night when it departs!

89:5
Is there not in these an oath (enough evidence) for those who use their common sense?

89:6
Have you not seen how your Rabb dealt with 'Ad?

89:7
The residents of Iram, the city of lofty pillars,

89:8
the like of which had never been built in other cities.

89:9
And with the people of Thamud who hewed out their dwellings in the rocks of the valley?

89:10
And with Fir'on (Pharaoh) the owner of stakes?

89:11
They all transgressed beyond bounds in their cities,

89:12
and committed great mischief therein.

89:13
Therefore, your Rabb let loose on them His scourge of torment.

89:14
Surely your Rabb is ever watchful.

As I've stated before, I welcome your own thoughts, rather than just a bunch of quotes from the book of your religion. Again, this has no relevance for me as I don't subscribe to your belief system. As you responded to my query with more quotes and none of your own thoughts, I can only assume that we have reached the end of conversation. I remain open to anything (in your own words ) you can think of to add or to ask.

Bright Blessings,
Krysia

 

[Krysia]

Krysia: As I don't follow your path, either, simply quoting passages from your Holy Book holds little relevance for me. But thank you for sharing your beliefs. I am open to you actually responding to my statements with your own thoughts.

Bookofknowledge: [Quotes Koran exttensively ... again].

I think this exchange tells you everything you need to know, Krysia ...

That's what I'm starting to realize, Dennis, but I still have my fingers crossed! Curse my patience.

Bright Blessings,
Krysia

 

[Bookofknowledge]

96:1
Read! In the name of your Rabb Who created

96:2
- created man from a leechlike mass.

96:3
Read! Your Rabb is the Most Gracious,

96:4
Who taught by the Pen,

96:5
taught man what he knew not.

96:6
Nay! Indeed, man transgresses all bounds,

96:7
in thinking himself to be self-sufficient,

96:8
although surely towards your Rabb is his return.

 

[Krysia]

96:1
Read! In the name of your Rabb Who created

96:2
- created man from a leechlike mass.

96:3
Read! Your Rabb is the Most Gracious,

96:4
Who taught by the Pen,

96:5
taught man what he knew not.

96:6
Nay! Indeed, man transgresses all bounds,

96:7
in thinking himself to be self-sufficient,

96:8
although surely towards your Rabb is his return.

Hmmm...he might actually quote the entire book. Maybe this thread name should be changed

Bookofknowledge, you are only affirming that you have no more thoughts on the topic at hand. As always, I will remain open to more original expression, but will cease to respond to mindless quotations.

Have a blessed day.

In love and light,
Krysia

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Hmmm...he might actually quote the entire book. Maybe this thread name should be changed

Bookofknowledge, you are only affirming that you have no more thoughts on the topic at hand. As always, I will remain open to more original expression, but will cease to respond to mindless quotations.

Have a blessed day.

In love and light,
Krysia

What is more original expressions other then the words of GOD, mankind expressions change by every generations gap - you want me to reply with my own thoughts why can't you face the knowledge given in the Qur'aan?

What is the matter with the people who can't use common sense in trying to understanding what I post?

 

[pensive]

As a Wiccan, I believe that people take the "creation story" theology too literally.

By any chance are you a fan of Joseph Campbell?

Personally, I think that much of Christian religion has confused the ideas of "spiritual truth" and "literal history." As a Pagan and a witch, I don't see the two as synonymous at all. For example, I can read in the Prose Edda how the fires of Muspelheim and the cold waters of Niflheim met in the Gunningap (excuse me if my spellings are off, I don't have a copy of the Eddas with me, and it's been a while since I've done an intense study in Norse mythology and cosmology) to bring about the first stages of creation and find spiritual truth. I don't need to believe that there was a literal place called Muspelheim. I don't have to believe that a literal cow named Adamulah sprung forth from the interchange. I simply see the poetic expression of the spiritual truth: creation came about as two complimentary and sometimes conflicting forces came into contact and formed a dynamic system. To me, whether this myth describes a literal history is unimportant.

It seems to me that only a small number of religions get stuck in such literalism. I see the Christian who insists on a literal Adam and a literal Eve and find myself wondering if they're forgetting the much more important spiritual truth that story is meant to teach.

 

[Krysia]

What is more original expressions other then the words of GOD, mankind expressions change by every generations gap - you want me to reply with my own thoughts why can't you face the knowledge given in the Qur'aan?

What is the matter with the people who can't use common sense in trying to understanding what I post?

I stated that I wanted your original thoughts. The quotes, while lovely, are from the Holy Book of your religion. The Qur'aan didn't fall out of the sky, freshly printed and bound. The book was written by men. You may then argue, "it records prophets who spoke the will of Allah." The prophets were still men, and it is in your belief system that this book is the only truth. As your religious system/path is not my path, merely quoting the Qur'aan is a moot argument. Understand?

Blessed Be,
Krysia