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Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

oi_antz said:
Is it correct for me to believe that you do think it is possible the information in Genesis originated with Adam's reliable account of witness, and one way or another came through subsequent generations, to Moses?

You would be flying in the face of every bit of reputable academic biblical scholarship there is by assuming this... The "history of the bible" debates at the moment tend to focus on David-Solomon which has kind of split academia. Everything prior to this is generally acknowledged to be mythical and legendary.

I personally sit quite comfortably within the biblical minimalist group (Lemche, Thompson and Davies), I don't think there was a historical David and I'm inclined to think that most of the OT is Persio-Hellenistic in origin, though drawing on earlier Canaanite mythology also.

anonymous person · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
You would be flying in the face of every bit of reputable academic biblical scholarship there is by assuming this... The "history of the bible" debates at the moment tend to focus on David-Solomon which has kind of split academia. Everything prior to this is generally acknowledged to be mythical and legendary.

I personally sit quite comfortably within the biblical minimalist group (Lemche, Thompson and Davies), I don't think there was a historical David and I'm inclined to think that most of the OT is Persio-Hellenistic in origin, though drawing on earlier Canaanite mythology also.

Why do you think that?

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

anonymous person said:
Why do you think that?

Because of the archaeological evidence... Jerusalem during Iron Age IIb doesn't appear to be the seat of an empire which stretched from Sinai to the Euphrates, it appears to have been more of a small little walled town.

Davian · Nov 20, 2015

oi_antz said:
Is it correct for me to believe that you do think it is possible the information in Genesis originated with Adam's reliable account of witness, and one way or another came through subsequent generations, to Moses?

Are we back at the stage where you are providing examples in support of how our approaches to exploring reality are diametrically opposed?

oi_antz · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
You would be flying in the face of every bit of reputable academic biblical scholarship there is by assuming this... The "history of the bible" debates at the moment tend to focus on David-Solomon which has kind of split academia. Everything prior to this is generally acknowledged to be mythical and legendary.

Have you managed to discover a way to rationalise the appearance of and acceptance of the myth, that has resulted in such devoted faith? Also put up some links that you think are interesting for this. Thanks!

oi_antz · Nov 20, 2015

Davian said:
Are we back at the stage where you are providing examples in support of how our approaches to exploring reality are diametrically opposed?

I am only asking whether you think it is possible or not. A yes no will do. Plus some explanation why you answer that way. Simple really. I wish you would just do that!

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

oi_antz said:
Have you managed to discover a way to rationalise the appearance of and acceptance of the myth, that has resulted in such devoted faith? Also put up some links that you think are interesting for this. Thanks!

What's wrong with myth? It's part of our cultural heritage in the same way that the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh is.

oi_antz · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
What's wrong with myth? It's part of our cultural heritage in the same way that the Enuma Elish and Epic of Gilgamesh is.

It is believed. It is not regarded as myth.

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

oi_antz said:
It is believed. It is not regarded as myth.

Well, come on now... If you believe that God inspired Scripture then God inspired the highest valued type of literature at the time yes? The highest valued type of literature in the ancient Middle East was mythology as we can precisely see by comparing the text to various other literature at the time.

oi_antz · Nov 20, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
Well, come on now... If you believe that God inspired Scripture then God inspired the highest valued type of literature at the time yes? The highest valued type of literature in the ancient Middle East was mythology as we can precisely see by comparing the text to various other literature at the time.

Ok. My question is how this came to be accepted and revered by the society, and believed, even so much as they would sacrifice animals to cover their sins, and Jesus would go to the cross believing He was the root and descendent of David. Will you suggest that the Israelites of Jesus' time did not believe that David, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam literally were real people of their heritage, and that Genesis creation account was myth?

Aelred of Rievaulx · Nov 20, 2015

oi_antz said:
Ok. My question is how this came to be accepted and revered by the society, and believed, even so much as they would sacrifice animals to cover their sins, and Jesus would go to the cross believing He was the root and descendent of David. Will you suggest that the Israelites of Jesus' time did not believe that David, Moses, Abraham, Noah, Adam literally were real people of their heritage, and that Genesis creation account was myth?

It was probably quite a popular notion for someone claiming a messianic title to consider themselves heir to David. In much the same way that Adam, though mythical, is understood typologically related to Jesus, and Jonah, so obviously a fiction, to be typologically related, one may also consider David typologically related.

Everyone in the ancient Middle East sacrificed to their gods. The ancient Israelites were no different...

bhsmte · Nov 21, 2015

anonymous person said:
Why do you think that?

It appears he just told you why he thinks that.

bhsmte · Nov 21, 2015

oi_antz said:
Have you managed to discover a way to rationalise the appearance of and acceptance of the myth, that has resulted in such devoted faith? Also put up some links that you think are interesting for this. Thanks!

Sure, some people really need to believe it and most will admit, they believe it on faith, not because of objective evidence.

oi_antz · Nov 21, 2015

Aelred of Rievaulx said:
It was probably quite a popular notion for someone claiming a messianic title to consider themselves heir to David. In much the same way that Adam, though mythical, is understood typologically related to Jesus, and Jonah, so obviously a fiction, to be typologically related, one may also consider David typologically related.

Everyone in the ancient Middle East sacrificed to their gods. The ancient Israelites were no different...

Do you suggest that when Jesus refers to the story of Jonah, He is regarding him as mythical?

bhsmte · Nov 21, 2015

oi_antz said:
Do you suggest that when Jesus refers to the story of Jonah, He is regarding him as mythical?

Is there anything in the bible, that you would define as mythical?

oi_antz · Nov 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
Sure, some people really need to believe it and most will admit, they believe it on faith, not because of objective evidence.

The question that I meant to ask, is how did the myth arrive in Israel's society and come to be believed as fact.

bhsmte · Nov 21, 2015

oi_antz said:
The question that I meant to ask, is how did the myth arrive in Israel's society and come to be believed as fact.

If it was considered fact, why do people need to believe the stories on faith?

oi_antz · Nov 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
Is there anything in the bible, that you would define as mythical?

Not without evidence that it is. The reason for this, is the tone of language of the writers, they reveal no hint of deceit.

bhsmte · Nov 21, 2015

oi_antz said:
Not without evidence that it is. The reason for this, is the tone of language of the writers, they reveal no hint of deceit.

Can you provide evidence proving that I was not abducted by aliens last night and returned to my home?

oi_antz · Nov 21, 2015

bhsmte said:
If it was considered fact, why do people need to believe the stories on faith?

Obviously God does not reveal Himself in an intrusive way. He seems to rather require us to trust Him, and approach Him humbly, as I gather so that we are not forced to obey Him but rather that we obey Him willingly.

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