ASIDE from apparent Biblical injunctions...

EnemyPartyII · Mar 17, 2007

I'm interested to know if anyone has any reason why we should consider homosexuality immoral or improper, without reference to Leviticus of Romans...

That is to say, is there an objective, empirical reason why homosexuality should be considered immoral or "wrong" in ANY moral framework, not just the Judeo-Christian one?

Gusoceros · Mar 17, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
I'm interested to know if anyone has any reason why we should consider homosexuality immoral or improper, without reference to Leviticus of Romans...

That is to say, is there an objective, empirical reason why homosexuality should be considered immoral or "wrong" in ANY moral framework, not just the Judeo-Christian one?

Why should we consider morality outside of what is right and wrong? Does it actually change what it is? Of what benefit is such a line of thinking outside of personal justification- with regard to right and wrong?

G

EnemyPartyII · Mar 17, 2007

Why should we consider morality outside of what is right and wrong? Does it actually change what it is? Of what benefit is such a line of thinking outside of personal justification- with regard to right and wrong?

Im... thats rather my point... aside from what one may interpret from some rather ambiguous Bible passages, is there any logical reason that can be clearly identified by anyone, Christian or not, as to the "rightness or wrongness" of homosexuality?

Gusoceros · Mar 17, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
Im... thats rather my point... aside from what one may interpret from some rather ambiguous Bible passages, is there any logical reason that can be clearly identified by anyone, Christian or not, as to the "rightness or wrongness" of homosexuality?

My point is- and I'll just be direct- right and wrong are pegged to something bigger than you- that is why right and wrong matter. If it was all relative, and you could determine what was right and wrong- then you would have no basis to identify what is actually morally right- because there would be no such thing. Without a standard bigger than your own opinion, there doesnt exist a moral right/wrong.

So- if it is your perspective that it doesnt matter if it is defined as a moral right or not in the Bible- then you actually have no basis to correct those that think it is. Since the Bible DOES speak to it, it matters if we get it right. So the only time it really matters with regard to it being morally right, IMHO- is when there is a moral standard bigger than mankind.

G

david_x · Mar 17, 2007

As I said in another thread that you simply ignored after awhile, granted the thread is closed now, sex not condowned by God is hurtful to relationships.

EnemyPartyII · Mar 17, 2007

So the only time it really matters with regard to it being morally right, IMHO- is when there is a moral standard bigger than mankind.

May I translate this as meaning "no, I cannot think of any non-biblical reasons to consider homosexuality morally wrong"?

EnemyPartyII · Mar 17, 2007

As I said in another thread that you simply ignored after awhile, granted the thread is closed now, sex not condowned by God is hurtful to relationships.

Can you support this without quoting the Bible?

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

Not a question to be asked to brainwashed sheep...

Gusoceros · Mar 17, 2007

EnemyPartyII said:
May I translate this as meaning "no, I cannot think of any non-biblical reasons to consider homosexuality morally wrong"?

No- you cant, not until you can show me why it is a relevant question.

G

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

davedjy said:
Not a question to be asked to brainwashed sheep...

.

david_x · Mar 17, 2007

Can you support this without quoting the Bible?

No. Nothing else is needed.

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

david_x said:
No. Nothing else is needed.

I guess you looked to the Bible when you learned to drive a car, learned to use the internet, and all that other stuff, huh?

manchambo · Mar 17, 2007

david_x said:
No. Nothing else is needed.

In other words: "my previous answer was utterly circular, and possessed no logical content whatsoever."

manchambo · Mar 17, 2007

Gusoceros said:
Why should we consider morality outside of what is right and wrong? Does it actually change what it is? Of what benefit is such a line of thinking outside of personal justification- with regard to right and wrong?

G

The Bible and "right and wrong" are not the same thing. We do not need the Bible to determine that many immoral things are immoral. If I ask you, can you give me a single non-biblical reason for it being wrong, you will not have any trouble identifying one (unless you are a sociopath).

To frame the question slightly differently, why is it that as to homosexuality in particular, you cannot articulate a single extra-biblical reason for immorality?

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

manchambo said:
The Bible and "right and wrong" are not the same thing. We do not need the Bible to determine that many immoral things are immoral. If I ask you, can you give me a single non-biblical reason for it being wrong, you will not have any trouble identifying one (unless you are a sociopath).

To frame the question slightly differently, why is it that as to homosexuality in particular, you cannot articulate a single extra-biblical reason for immorality?

Manchambo, are you a new light Presbyterian by any chance?

Gusoceros · Mar 17, 2007

manchambo said:
The Bible and "right and wrong" are not the same thing. We do not need the Bible to determine that many immoral things are immoral. If I ask you, can you give me a single non-biblical reason for it being wrong, you will not have any trouble identifying one (unless you are a sociopath).

To frame the question slightly differently, why is it that as to homosexuality in particular, you cannot articulate a single extra-biblical reason for immorality?

The Bible is the definitive statement on moral right and wrong. It is God's Word on what is and is not moral behavior.

I have already spoken to this question, and shown it to be irrelevant. Please read earlier in the thread.

G

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

Gusoceros said:
The Bible is the definitive statement on moral right and wrong. It is God's Word on what is and is not moral behavior.

I have already spoken to this question, and shown it to be irrelevant. Please read earlier in the thread.

G

SO IS SLAVERY AND MISTREATMENT OF WOMEN SOCIALLY AND MORALLY ACCEPTABLE?

Gusoceros · Mar 17, 2007

manchambo said:
In other words: "my previous answer was utterly circular, and possessed no logical content whatsoever."

I dont think that your rework of his statement is accurate.

G

davedjy · Mar 17, 2007

Gusoceros said:
I dont think that your rework of his statement is accurate.

G

That is a highly ambiguous, if not intentionally ambiguous answer...

manchambo · Mar 18, 2007

Gusoceros said:
I dont think that your rework of his statement is accurate.

G

I think it was.

ASIDE from apparent Biblical injunctions...

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