As we move forward

[Spinrad]

assuming we can move forward and (NOT) regress from our present condition, what valuable ideas which are exclussive to Chrsitianity can we take with us?

 

[Cerberus~]

I don't think there are any.

 

[Spinrad]

Do you suppose the gospels' views on what consititutes moral behavior as opposed to what has the appearance of morality is exclussively Christian?

 

[Cerberus~]

Yes, but that isn't entirely something we should take with us.

The individual moral codes of Christian aren't exclusively Christian. Moral codes pre-date Christian, pre-date Judaism.

Now there's some nice stories in the Bible, good parables. And Jesus was a fine philosopher with a good message. I'm not saying those are all things we should forget, but then again, many of Jesus's morals pre-date him, so they aren't exclusively Christian.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I just can't think of anything exclusively Christian about Christ's message except for the obvious theological differences, which are actually mostly Jewish...

 

[Spinrad]

What I was refering to was the actual topic of his sermon on the mount, which is, if you remove all the gobbeldygook, about hypocrisy. I am not sure I know of any other teaching that demonstrates the absurdity of self righteousness as well. Do you?

 

[Eudaimonist]

What I was refering to was the actual topic of his sermon on the mount

I think the Sermon on the Mount is one of the first things in Christianity I would leave behind. The meek shall inherit the Earth? Puh-lease. Only if the bold leave for the Stars.

 

[Spinrad]

That's the religious aspect. The basic premise, again if you strip away all the nonsense, is that no one person has more value, morally, than any other. And more importantly, those who make grand gestures to demonstrate their morality are the ones you should be most careful of. If you change the whole "all have sinned" to "all are human and make mistakes" you have a fairly decent argument for self government.

 

[Jethro Tull]

I'm under the impression that although Christianity emphasizes many wonderful values, none of those values are exclusive to Christianity. "Do not unto others.." comes up pretty frequently in other cultures too.

 

[sonofgodjose]

I'm under the impression that although Christianity emphasizes many wonderful values, none of those values are exclusive to Christianity. "Do not unto others.." comes up pretty frequently in other cultures too.

"Do not unto others.." is the most important value of any religion/non-religion. IMHO

 

[Eudaimonist]

The basic premise, again if you strip away all the nonsense, is that no one person has more value, morally, than any other.

I don't see that message in there, and I would disagree with it if it were. Does Gandhi truly have no more value, morally, than Hitler? I'd say he does, even though both are due a certain bedrock amount of respect simply for being human beings. Gandhi deseves far, far more admiration on moral grounds, which gives him greater value as a human being.

 

[ebia]

Do you suppose the gospels' views on what consititutes moral behavior as opposed to what has the appearance of morality is exclussively Christian?

Could I trouble you to rephrase this, as I've read it 4 times and still can't figure it out.

To attempt to address the OP: I have no idea. I've got a rough idea of what I think is best about Christianity, but how am I supposed to tell which of that is exclusive? My initial reaction is none of it - any part of it exists in some other belief system somewhere. As it should be if the Christian religious message is correct and we were created in the image of God in the first place.

 

[Spinrad]

I don't see that message in there, and I would disagree with it if it were. Does Gandhi truly have no more value, morally, than Hitler? I'd say he does, even though both are due a certain bedrock amount of respect simply for being human beings. Gandhi deseves far, far more admiration on moral grounds, which gives him greater value as a human being.

We admire his actions, and his history. The man? Wasn't he a Hindu? Nothing admirable about that. He did admirable things, and Hitler did awful things, but had I known both before they actually got to DO these things I wonder if I would have seen either of them as admirable OR despiccable. Odds are no. I would have seen a racist and a theist. Knowing me I would have dismissed both as "gentle in the head". Jesus was not talking about respecting people's past or future actions, but rather talking about your innabiblity to discern someone's value day to day. By which I mean Pharisees were accorded moral value based on their position, and their public acts of righteousness, which he said was explaitaive deleted, because it is. He pointed out what some people had been thinking for some time, that this moral value was flawed on it's face and was keeping people from achieving social advancement. It kept them subject to Rme and kept portions of people ostracised because of where they were born and how much they owned. Or at least that's what I take away from it.

Now, obviously you can't remove his message from the nonsensical religious stuff without damaging it a little. These WERE theists in a world without much logic on the public level. Everything ran through a religous filter and was tainted in that area. But I agree that, while it's our job to demand accountability for actions, none of us can really know anyone's true moral worth until we have seen all the results of their actions, and that can't always, and I would say can never be deduced until well after the fact. If ever.

 

[Spinrad]

Could I trouble you to rephrase this, as I've read it 4 times and still can't figure it out.

To attempt to address the OP: I have no idea. I've got a rough idea of what I think is best about Christianity, but how am I supposed to tell which of that is exclusive? My initial reaction is none of it - any part of it exists in some other belief system somewhere. As it should be if the Christian religious message is correct and we were created in the image of God in the first place.

What I meant was that...well, an example: I am nice to an attractive girl. Is it because I am nice or because she is attractive? I am respectful to my boss. Is it because I have respect or fear for my job? I pray loudly and often. Is it because I want a better relationship with Cthulhu or because I want you to see me pray?

 

[Verv]

assuming we can move forward and (NOT) regress from our present condition, what valuable ideas which are exclussive to Chrsitianity can we take with us?

Are we talking long-term or short-term? Most of the original ideas of Christianity have since become so standard and integrated into our society and their impact is immeasurable.

Some concepts, in short, that were pioneered by Christianity:

(1) Monogamy coupled with loyalty to one's wife
(2) Exclusive and romantic love
(3) Agape (unconditional love to others)
(4) Judge not lest ye be judged...

There are a lot of concepts along these lines, but those are the major ones, and it is impossible to measure the profound impact of Christianity on civilization.

One could even argue that a oncept of human rights originates in Christianity when one examines the writings of John Locke, who believed man was endowed by God a right to freedom, having been created in the image of God we are naturally good, and thus deseve rightsof free life and free rule.

All of these are more than arguable though, and furthermore many of these manifested themselves previously in other forms.

We are talking about 2,000+ years of Christian ideas coupled with Christian tradition, that span an entire globe and encompass ... well, basically the last 1500 years of Western Civilization.

I would be shy to say many concepts, because some are rooted indirectly in Jewish traditions. I would be shy to discuss the topic extensively...

It is too large and impossible to truly calculate.

Tout est grace.

 

[ebia]

Are we talking long-term or short-term? Most of the original ideas of Christianity have since become so standard and integrated into our society and their impact is immeasurable.

Some concepts, in short, that were pioneered by Christianity:

(1) Monogamy coupled with loyalty to one's wife

Exists in many cultures completely independently of and predating Christianity. It even occurs in some birds, for crying out loud. You certainly can't put this one down to Christianity.

(2) Exclusive and romantic love

Again, hardly exclusively Christian.

(3) Agape (unconditional love to others)

Hmm.

(4) Judge not lest ye be judged...

I'm sure this must exist in others.