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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

As to mandatory,

juvenissun

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Some freedom under a tyrannt is intolerable.
Inequality brought by freedom is tolerable.

Could the freedom have variation on its degree (more than just 0% or 100%)? Does partial freedom still have some degree of freedom?

If so, how should the tolerance be set on the degree of freedom?
 
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bricklayer

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Could the freedom have variation on its degree (more than just 0% or 100%)? Does partial freedom still have some degree of freedom?

If so, how should the tolerance be set on the degree of freedom?

The threshold is another's freedom.
A God given right obligates no one.

My right to life obligates no one to give or take my life.
My right to liberty obligates no one to give or take my liberty.
My right to pursue happiness obligates no on to give to or take from me.
 
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juvenissun

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The threshold is another's freedom.
A God given right obligates no one.

My right to life obligates no one to give or take my life.
My right to liberty obligates no one to give or take my liberty.
My right to pursue happiness obligates no on to give to or take from me.

The first one is OK. There is no option in a life/death matter.

There are many "don't" in your life. How do you tell which one is tolerable and which one is not?

A better way to look at it is the purpose driven freedom. Define the purpose of your life and get the freedom you need. If you do not need happiness, then it is fine to let it be taken away. If I don't care about politics, then it is fine to live under a dictator, as long as I have food, shelter and work.
 
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bricklayer

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The first one is OK. There is no option in a life/death matter.

There are many "don't" in your life. How do you tell which one is tolerable and which one is not?

A better way to look at it is the purpose driven freedom. Define the purpose of your life and get the freedom you need. If you do not need happiness, then it is fine to let it be taken away. If I don't care about politics, then it is fine to live under a dictator, as long as I have food, shelter and work.

The above is only true is a most self-centered way.

What of charity? sympathy? empathy? and Love?

Charity, for example, has a voluntary nature. Charity is indispensable to remaining free as a nation of people.
Freedom itself has a voluntary nature.

I do not believe that I have no obligation to another, toward another.
BUT, there is 180% of difference between having a personal responsibility to God, toward each other and having a public responsibility to each other, toward each other. Disregard for the former and excesses of the later both lead to tyranny.

Poverty is tolerable; tyranny is not.
 
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juvenissun

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The above is only true is a most self-centered way.

What of charity? sympathy? empathy? and Love?

Charity, for example, has a voluntary nature. Charity is indispensable to remaining free as a nation of people.
Freedom itself has a voluntary nature.

I do not believe that I have no obligation to another, toward another.
BUT, there is 180% of difference between having a personal responsibility to God, toward each other and having a public responsibility to each other, toward each other. Disregard for the former and excesses of the later both lead to tyranny.

Poverty is tolerable; tyranny is not.

It is true. But over 90% of human population is self-centered. A certain way of self-centering is Christian.
 
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juvenissun

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Christianity is Christ-centered.

That is at the first level and we can take it as a background, just like the air to us.

What is then, at the second level? I would say it is a self-centered person. Of course, this needs some footnotes.

Back to the OP. If a person is self-centered, then he can tolerate a lot more than others, includes a very limited freedom.
 
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