as it was,so shall it be/choking on a gnat ?

Aman777 · Jul 17, 2013

dlamberth said:
Even though your stand alone interpretation of the Genesis Creation Story is in disagreement with AV and Dad's and everyone else in the world? You surely DO disagree!!!.

Dear dlamberth, Not really. ALL Christians believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which IS the power of God unto Salvation. Do you?

In Love,
Aman

AV1611VET · Jul 17, 2013

dlamberth said:
Nope...no separation at any time. Period!!

Then how does it differ from Pantheism, where the two were never separate?

Aman777 · Jul 17, 2013

dlamberth said:
We can not truly know Christ apart from God. Yes, we can "believe" in a person called Jesus, and even worship that person and call him God. But to truly "know" and "experience" Christ deeply with in ones Heart...that can not be done apart from God. Essentially I'm turning your question upside down..

Dear dlamberth, I know. I guess what I'm getting at is this: Have you been born again Spiritually? If so, then how did it happen? apart from "according to the Scriptures?"

In Love,
Aman

dlamberth · Jul 17, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear dlamberth, Not really. ALL Christians believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, which IS the power of God unto Salvation. Do you?

In Love,
Aman

I already answered.

.

dlamberth · Jul 17, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Then how does it differ from Pantheism, where the two were never separate?

I'm not a pantheist. My limited understanding has to do with the hows and where the Divine is seen and experienced.

.

dlamberth · Jul 17, 2013

Aman777 said:
I guess what I'm getting at is this: Have you been born again Spiritually?

I know the experience of having been washed with God's Love and with what Christians call the Holy Spirit. If you call that being born again Spiritually, than yes.

If so, then how did it happen? apart from "according to the Scriptures?"

It happened over a period of time. There was no single moment. It all had to do with my growing Love for my Beloved God and in my also growing awareness of His presence, everywhere I looked.

.

AV1611VET · Jul 17, 2013

dlamberth said:
I'm not a pantheist. My limited understanding has to do with the hows and where the Divine is seen and experienced.

So whereas some believe in creatio ex nihilo, I take it you believe in creatio ex Deo?

TLK Valentine · Jul 17, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear TLK, Not so. God caused the emergence of evil into our world, by making matter apart from Himself, but there is NO darkness in Him.

Isaiah 45:7 -- I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God created evil, and, if I may get philosophical for a moment, a creator always puts a bit of himself into whatever he makes.

Besides, my impression of God is that He is in... well, pretty much whatever He wants to be in -- your demands of Him notwithstanding.

It's actually not unlike Thomas Aquinas' argument about why God allows evil in the world... He allows it, knowing (since He's God, of course) that good will eventually result from it.

If the evil ends up causing Good, how can it not be of God?

For example: On May 3, 1980, A 13-year old girl named Cari Lightner was struck and killed by a drunk driver. Hit and run; poor thing died on impact.

Good, or Evil? Was God in that act, or not? Before you answer, consider the following:

Cari's Mother, Candy Lightner, was so incensed by this shocking act (turns out the driver was a repeat offender) that she founded MADD. In the years since then, the legislation that MADD and similar organizations have pushed for has probably saved countless lives.

From evil comes good -- one could call it the very definition of redemption; ironic that a Christian wouldn't see it.

But then again, while things are relatively cut-and-dried in individual passages of the Bible, alas, the real world is rarely so accommodating.

Now ask yourself: Where does God live: In the pages of the Bible, or in the real world?

Chosen can also be understood as "examples" of men apart from God. In the end, they will accept Jesus as their Messiah. Scripture tells us that they have NONE understanding. The LORD says:

Jer 4:22 For My people is foolish, they have not known Me; they are sottish children, and they have none understanding: they are wise to do evil, but to do good they have no knowledge.

Don't take me wrong. I love Jews and they will soon be my brothers and sisters in Christ, but I do NOT follow their theology.

In Love,
Aman

A pity -- you just exposed the source of antisemitism, as well as its biggest culprit -- Christians.

dlamberth · Jul 17, 2013

AV1611VET said:
So whereas some believe in creatio ex nihilo, I take it you believe in creatio ex Deo?

You have taught us well about creato ex nihilo. I had to google creato ex deo though. I guess that would be close to how I'd envision creation.

.

Tomk80 · Jul 17, 2013

TLK Valentine said:
because you have more experience with creationist lunacy -- kind of like how Hannibal Lechter knew Buffalo Bill...

Also -- and I'm just spitballing here -- you're sure now because he's already said so.

Might I also add that AV is generally sure of himself, regardless of whether his views line up with reality in any way at all.

Tomk80 · Jul 17, 2013

Aman777 said:
Dear Cab, Scripture tells us that unbelievers cannot understand the Spiritual. ALL Christians are part of the body of Christ, and it takes ALL of us working together, with God providing each of us with our own understanding.

Well great. Why don't you and AV just duke out a coherent interpretation of Genesis first, on which you both agree. Then we'll come in and talk about that.

I wish you the best of luck in that endavour.

AV1611VET · Jul 17, 2013

Tomk80 said:
Well great. Why don't you and AV just duke out a coherent interpretation of Genesis first, on which you both agree. Then we'll come in and talk about that.

I wish you the best of luck in that endavour.

Why should we? history here shows us it wouldn't matter.

Lion Hearted Man · Jul 17, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Why should we? history here shows us it wouldn't matter.

Why do you think people have different interpretations of Genesis? Do you think it is possible to know a one correct version?

What do you say to another Christian when their view is different...do you attempt to reconcile or agree to disagree?

CabVet · Jul 18, 2013

AV1611VET said:
Why should we? history here shows us it wouldn't matter.

It matters when every one of you claims your version is "the truth".

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2013

CabVet said:
It matters when every one of you claims your version is "the truth".

No, it doesn't matter.

As I said before, whether two Christians agree or disagree on a matter, we usually get the same response from you guys.

For example, what about all of us who say Matthew wrote the book of Matthew?

Do you believe that?

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

Aman777 · Jul 18, 2013

TLK Valentine;63597945]Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

God created evil, and, if I may get philosophical for a moment, a creator always puts a bit of himself into whatever he makes.

Besides, my impression of God is that He is in... well, pretty much whatever He wants to be in -- your demands of Him notwithstanding.

It's actually not unlike Thomas Aquinas' argument about why God allows evil in the world... He allows it, knowing (since He's God, of course) that good will eventually result from it.

If the evil ends up causing Good, how can it not be of God?

Dear TLK, In the beginning of the creation of physical matter God brought into the physical world, heaven (air) earth (ground) and water, but darkness or death was upon these first elements of creation. Genesis 1:1-2 ANYthing God would make from these contaminated elements is subject to darkness or death.

It is because God had brought into being the elements necessary for making a perfect, physical, heaven, APART from Himself, and anything apart from God contains death.

Mark 10:18
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou Me good? there is none good but ONE, that is, God.

IOW, You, me, the Universe and anything in Creation, was subject to death, since God is the ONLY immortal Being.

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting.

In order for mortal mankind to live forever, and that is the ONLY way to have a perfect Eternal Heaven, man MUST be born again Spiritually....IN GOD, or IN CHRIST. That is WHY God said in the next verse, Let there be Light. When God said this, Jesus came into the physical world, from within the invisible Spirit of God, and made a way for mankind to be IN GOD Eternally, and that is through Faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

This is necessary because the ONLY good thing about humans is their FAITH in Jesus. Those who have NOT been born again remain APART from God and are subject to the evil force of Death. The only way to avoid Eternal death is to believe that Jesus died for our sins, was buried, and arose the 3rd day ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES. Those who believe this Good News about Jesus Christ, will be born again Spiritually, Eternally, IN CHRIST, who IS God.

So, IF you wish to remain with death forever, then all you have to do is reject God's Holy Word, in favor of the knowledge of this lost and dying world. It's YOUR free choice, and your future is assured by your own FAITH in Jesus. Otherwise, you are subject to evil and you will spend Eternity alone, apart from God, and as the LORD said in the beginning, It is not good for man to be alone. That's God's Truth.

In Love,
Aman

CabVet · Jul 18, 2013

Aman777 said:
That's God's Truth.

So humble...

dlamberth · Jul 18, 2013

Aman777 said:
It is because God had brought into being the elements necessary for making a perfect, physical, heaven, APART from Himself, and anything apart from God contains death.

I don't know about that. It seems to me that bringing anything into being that is apart and separate from the Creator is one of those things that can not be done. It's not unlike art where the artist leaves a part of him/her self in the picture that they are painting.

.

CabVet · Jul 18, 2013

AV1611VET said:
No, it doesn't matter.

As I said before, whether two Christians agree or disagree on a matter, we usually get the same response from you guys.

Of course it matters. There can be only one "truth". If every single Christian out there has his own interpretation and every single one of them claims his interpretation to the "the truth", by default the vast majority of them are wrong.

AV1611VET said:
For example, what about all of us who say Matthew wrote the book of Matthew?

Do you believe that?

I do not, I accept the historical evidence that indicates it was written long after Matthew's death.

Do you believe that? I thought you believed the Bible was written in English in 1611.

AV1611VET · Jul 18, 2013

CabVet said:
Of course it matters. There can be only one "truth". If every single Christian out there has his own interpretation and every single one of them claims his interpretation to the "the truth", by default the vast majority of them are wrong.

I do not, I accept the historical evidence that indicates it was written long after Matthew's death.

Do you believe that? I thought you believed the Bible was written in English in 1611.

Your point can take a hike, CabVet.

Whether we disagree -- such as how to interpret Genesis 1, or whether we do agree -- such as who wrote the book of Matthew, it doesn't make a difference to you guys.

And for the record, we don't all agree on the interpretation of the Second Amendment -- does that make a difference to you?

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