As A Thief

[Davy]

On the 6th Vial timing, Lord Jesus is still warning His Church that He comes "as a thief"...

Rev 16:15-17
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And He gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, "It is done."
KJV

He then warns His Church on earth that those who "watcheth, and keepth his garments", will be blessed. But those who do not will symbolically "walk naked, and they see his shame."

The very next event He shows is that of the battle of Armageddon, the day when He will gather the nations against Jerusalem for battle on the "day of the Lord" (Zechariah 14:1-2).

That also is the day of His coming to gather His Church. That is the day of His cup of wrath poured out upon the wicked (6th Seal, 7th Trumpet also). That is the day of God's consuming fire burning man's works off the surface of this earth (2 Peter 3:10-13).

But just where before this Revelation 16 Scripture did Lord Jesus teach about that idea of His coming "as a thief"?

Here is one place...

Matt 24:42-47
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

No doubt at all what Jesus' subject is there. It's about His coming to gather His faithful Church. What's funny is how the false Pre-tribulational Rapture school uses this Scripture about their rapture, while at the same time rejecting this Chapter's Matthew 24:29-31 verses being about the rapture of the Church.


43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

That is where Lord Jesus first used the idea of His coming being like a thief breaking into your home.

That specific verse reveals what? Do you see that, "if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come,"? What does that tell us about Christ's command for us to WATCH? Does this mean we are supposed to have some kind of sense of His future return by watching? Yes! Definitely! And He gave us what... to be watching here in His Olivet discourse. He gave this so we would NOT be deceived about the end.

(Yet another thing I have say about the false Pre-trib Rapture theory, they also tell us to WATCH pulling from Jesus' Olivet discourse here, while preaching at the same time that this was not meant for Christ's Church, but for the Jews in Jerusalem. They might ought to read Luke 21:21 again about those of His in the countries.)


44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Be ready, watch. He commanded us. Does that mean just live it up and don't be concerned about the Signs of the end He gave here? No. We are to be watching those Signs of the end so we will know in what 'watch' the thief will try to break in!


45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
KJV

Jesus is pointing to the "strong meat" of His Word (see Hebrews 5). His faithful servants are to be giving out that "strong meat" of His Word in "due season". Just what 'season' would He be pointing to here about this "as a thief" idea? The day of His future coming and our gathering to Him. Simple, right?

Likewise, when He does return, and He finds His faithful giving out that "strong meat" in "due season" (i.e., leading up to the end), that servant He will make ruler over all His goods. Those will reign with Him in the world to come that begins at His return.

So for you pre-tribbers, you need to decide whether this Matthew 24 Scripture Jesus gave is for you, or not, because the Pre-tribulational Rapture school has long used this Scripture about the day of Jesus' future coming a whole lot through history of their theory.

 

[Davy]

As A Thief continued...

To the surprise of many, Apostle Paul also covered the "as a thief" metaphor that Jesus used for the day of His coming to gather His Church.

1 Thess 5:1-10
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

In the previous 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter Apostle Paul had just covered Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. In this 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter, Paul is actually continuing the subject of that same day when Jesus comes and gathers His Church.

What's that "times and the seasons" Paul describes there that those brethren already knew? Those are the Signs written in God's Word of events leading up to Christ's future coming. Even in Paul's day they had an inkling of those Signs, and that is actually one of the things Paul is covering in this 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Notice Apostle Paul tied that "as a thief" timing that Jesus taught for His coming with that "day of the Lord" timing. Does that mean the "day of the Lord" happens on the same day of Christ's future coming "as a thief"? Yep! Sure does! This here means the day of Jesus' future return to gather His Church is on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation" like the false Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches.


3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Not only that, but Paul also reveals that time of "sudden destruction" also occurs upon the wicked on that same day when Jesus comes "as a thief" on the "day of the Lord". That is the time of God's cup of Wrath poured out upon the earth, i.e., the 7th Vial, 7th Trumpet, 6th Seal.

God's Old Testament prophets were given to say much about that destruction by God upon the wicked on that "day of the Lord". This is how we know where Paul was pulling about that future event. The Old Testament also showed the false one coming will use 'peace' to destroy many, and that is why those deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to that "sudden destruction".


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Paul then contrasted us, Christ's Church, with those deceived who will be saying that, "Peace and safety" about the "great tribulation" time just prior to the "day of the Lord". They will fall away to the coming false-Messiah, thinking Messiah has come (mainly orthodox Jews along with all the world's religions that are deceived.)

Paul even compares those in darkness as being spiritually drunken in the night. What idea will they be drunken on per Paul here? That false "Peace and safety" idea, that's what. They will be deceived to the false-Messiah and his host. Therefore they will not be spiritually sober, nor spiritually awake.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
KJV

That 9th verse is often wrongly taught by the Pre-trib Rapture school to mean the 'wrath' upon those who go through the "great tribulation". So they instead teach that the Church will be raptured prior to that "great tribulation", and that this 'wrath' is for the tribulation time. It is not.

Actually per Paul here, that "wrath" is about the day of "sudden destruction" he taught, which will only happen on the last day when Jesus comes, the "day of the Lord", and it will be that day that will end this present world.

Did you know that Apostle Peter taught about this "as a thief" timing also?

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

Not only is that day when Jesus comes to gather His Church, and also the day of the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked, i.e., God's cup of WRATH upon them, it is also the day when God's consuming fire will literally... end this present world time. That fire will usher all into the start of Christ's future reign upon this earth with His faithful elect. That of course means, Satan's beast kingdom and the tribulation will end on that same day also.

 

[Servant78]

Jesus warned us in Rev 16 so we may be taken as wise virgins before destruction as people will be eating and drinking and building and marrying like the time of Noah/Lot means the wrath has not been poured when the wise virgins are taken

The Kings of the world and their armies will be prepared to battle Jesus at Armageddon battle so the 2nd coming is no secret, but Jesus come as thief in the night for the rapture.

Jesus will bring the army of raptured saints back to earth to Armageddon battle in Revelation 19 before starting the Millennium.

 

[Davy]

Jesus warned us in Rev 16 so we may be taken as wise virgins before destruction as people will be eating and drinking and building and marrying like the time of Noah/Lot means the wrath has not been poured when the wise virgins are taken

The Kings of the world and their armies will be prepared to battle Jesus at Armageddon battle so the 2nd coming is no secret, but Jesus come as thief in the night for the rapture.

Jesus will bring the army of raptured saints back to earth to Armageddon battle in Revelation 19 before starting the Millennium.

Sorry friend, but those men you listen to (pre-trib rapture preachers) have jumbled many Scriptures up in your mind. Jesus did not show the events of the end will happen like they say. That is one of the reasons why I'm showing this "As A Thief" matter directly from God's written Word, for there are many brethren that haven't even read it nor heard it preached in their Church.

 

[sandman]

As A Thief continued...

To the surprise of many, Apostle Paul also covered the "as a thief" metaphor that Jesus used for the day of His coming to gather His Church.

1 Thess 5:1-10
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

In the previous 1 Thessalonians 4 Chapter Apostle Paul had just covered Christ's coming and gathering of His Church. In this 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter, Paul is actually continuing the subject of that same day when Jesus comes and gathers His Church.

What's that "times and the seasons" Paul describes there that those brethren already knew? Those are the Signs written in God's Word of events leading up to Christ's future coming. Even in Paul's day they had an inkling of those Signs, and that is actually one of the things Paul is covering in this 1 Thessalonians 5 Chapter.


2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Notice Apostle Paul tied that "as a thief" timing that Jesus taught for His coming with that "day of the Lord" timing. Does that mean the "day of the Lord" happens on the same day of Christ's future coming "as a thief"? Yep! Sure does! This here means the day of Jesus' future return to gather His Church is on the LAST DAY of this world, NOT prior to the "great tribulation" like the false Pre-trib Rapture theory teaches.


3 For when they shall say, "Peace and safety"; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Not only that, but Paul also reveals that time of "sudden destruction" also occurs upon the wicked on that same day when Jesus comes "as a thief" on the "day of the Lord". That is the time of God's cup of Wrath poured out upon the earth, i.e., the 7th Vial, 7th Trumpet, 6th Seal.

God's Old Testament prophets were given to say much about that destruction by God upon the wicked on that "day of the Lord". This is how we know where Paul was pulling about that future event. The Old Testament also showed the false one coming will use 'peace' to destroy many, and that is why those deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" just prior to that "sudden destruction".


4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

Paul then contrasted us, Christ's Church, with those deceived who will be saying that, "Peace and safety" about the "great tribulation" time just prior to the "day of the Lord". They will fall away to the coming false-Messiah, thinking Messiah has come (mainly orthodox Jews along with all the world's religions that are deceived.)

Paul even compares those in darkness as being spiritually drunken in the night. What idea will they be drunken on per Paul here? That false "Peace and safety" idea, that's what. They will be deceived to the false-Messiah and his host. Therefore they will not be spiritually sober, nor spiritually awake.


9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
KJV

That 9th verse is often wrongly taught by the Pre-trib Rapture school to mean the 'wrath' upon those who go through the "great tribulation". So they instead teach that the Church will be raptured prior to that "great tribulation", and that this 'wrath' is for the tribulation time. It is not.

Actually per Paul here, that "wrath" is about the day of "sudden destruction" he taught, which will only happen on the last day when Jesus comes, the "day of the Lord", and it will be that day that will end this present world.

Did you know that Apostle Peter taught about this "as a thief" timing also?

2 Peter 3:10-12
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
KJV

Not only is that day when Jesus comes to gather His Church, and also the day of the "sudden destruction" upon the wicked, i.e., God's cup of WRATH upon them, it is also the day when God's consuming fire will literally... end this present world time. That fire will usher all into the start of Christ's future reign upon this earth with His faithful elect. That of course means, Satan's beast kingdom and the tribulation will end on that same day also.

This is regarding the second post
Here is some additional information …you can do with it what you wish.

I have bolded the pronouns so you can see who Paul is referring to.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Day of the Lord and/or the Lords day → reference the tribulation …not the return of Christ for the Church. Some of the references to the “rapture” are → gathering together unto him, the day of redemption, our glorious hope, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (See note on this below)



3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that [that] THE day should overtake you as a thief.

In brackets “that” is the definite article relating to the day of darkness.

5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.

8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

The wrath here is related to the salvation of verse 8. …This, and other places dictate we are saved from the wrath to come Rom 5:9, 1Th 1:10….and therein we comfort ourselves as per verse 11.

10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.


NOTE:
If you have KJV…. in 2Th 2:2 it reads …day of Christ is at hand…. It’s wrong. And I think they are the only version that have Christ. All other versions have (Kyriou) Lord…… All the Greek text read Lord.
2:2 Should read: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the "day of the Lord" is at hand.


The thief in the night has no relationship to the Rapture ….thieves do not announce themselves …(trust me, that was one of my profession, a long time ago, and I would have been a failure if I had come in ...with a shout, voice of archangel, and the trump of God)

When Christ returns for the Church of Grace (rapture) it is announced loudly!!!
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

 

[Davy]

What you say is NOT WRITTEN in God's Word at all!

All you are doing is regurgitating what you learned from some fake Pre-trib Rapture theory preacher, which are lies that were created back in 1830's Great Britain when the FALSE pre-trib rapture theory was first preached in a Christian Church (see Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby).

I have bolded the pronouns so you can see who Paul is referring to.

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Day of the Lord and/or the Lords day → reference the tribulation …not the return of Christ for the Church. Some of the references to the “rapture” are → gathering together unto him, the day of redemption, our glorious hope, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (See note on this below)

Not correct!

That idea above is a doctrine from men's false Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory. It is NOT written in God's Word.

The "day of the Lord" timing, per God's Old Testament prophets, and per Apostles Paul and Peter, is on the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus returns.

2 Peter 3:10 reveals this emphatically, because ALL of MAN'S WORKS ARE BURNED OFF THE EARTH ON THAT "DAY OF THE LORD" EVENT. That means NO trib possible, no Babylon harlot possible, when that burning by God's consuming fire happens! And it is amazing that ANY one who claims... to be a Christian would miss that point!

In Revelation 16:15, Jesus said He comes "as a thief". He first used that 'as a thief' idea in His Olivet discourse Sign about the day of His future return commanding His elect to 'watch', lest they are not aware of the thief breaking in (Matthew 24:42-47; Revelation 3:3).

3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that [that] THE day should overtake you as a thief.

In brackets “that” is the definite article relating to the day of darkness.

That event of when those deceived will be saying that, "Peace and safety", and then the "sudden destruction" comes upon them, is FROM the Old Testament prophets about the destruction FROM GOD on the "day of the Lord"!

Isa 13:6-9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
KJV


Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
KJV

Obad 15
15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
KJV

Zeph 1:14-18
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of His jealousy: for He shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
KJV

So why don't you try reading your Bible before you make such comments from men's doctrines you got from houses of vanity, and not a House of God.

 

[sandman]

What you say is NOT WRITTEN in God's Word at all!

All you are doing is regurgitating what you learned from some fake Pre-trib Rapture theory preacher, which are lies that were created back in 1830's Great Britain when the FALSE pre-trib rapture theory was first preached in a Christian Church (see Edward Irving and John Nelson Darby).




Not correct!

That idea above is a doctrine from men's false Pre-tribulational Rapture Theory. It is NOT written in God's Word.

The "day of the Lord" timing, per God's Old Testament prophets, and per Apostles Paul and Peter, is on the LAST DAY of this present world when Jesus returns.

2 Peter 3:10 reveals this emphatically, because ALL of MAN'S WORKS ARE BURNED OFF THE EARTH ON THAT "DAY OF THE LORD" EVENT. That means NO trib possible, no Babylon harlot possible, when that burning by God's consuming fire happens! And it is amazing that ANY one who claims... to be a Christian would miss that point!

In Revelation 16:15, Jesus said He comes "as a thief". He first used that 'as a thief' idea in His Olivet discourse Sign about the day of His future return commanding His elect to 'watch', lest they are not aware of the thief breaking in (Matthew 24:42-47; Revelation 3:3).



That event of when those deceived will be saying that, "Peace and safety", and then the "sudden destruction" comes upon them, is FROM the Old Testament prophets about the destruction FROM GOD on the "day of the Lord"!

Isa 13:6-9
6 Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames.
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and He shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
KJV


Joel 3:14-16
14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.
15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16 The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter His voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of His people, and the strength of the children of Israel.
KJV

Obad 15
15 For the day of the LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.
KJV

Zeph 1:14-18
14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,
16 A day of the trumpet and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers.
17 And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
18 Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in the day of the LORD's wrath; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of His jealousy: for He shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land.
KJV

So why don't you try reading your Bible before you make such comments from men's doctrines you got from houses of vanity, and not a House of God.

I may be reading between the lines a bit …. but I get the impression that you disagree with me….
You could have just stated that… and I would have been cool with it….. But instead, you attempted to assail my character, which is really petty…. And other than your accusations about me being untrue …it shows your disregard for the body of Christ…of which we are both members.


What may surprise you is …. I do not see a problem whatsoever with the scripture you quoted, in fact it emphasizes what I previously posted ↓ regarding the “day of the Lord”

((Day of the Lord and/or the Lords day → reference the tribulation …not the return of Christ for the Church. Some of the references to the “rapture” are → gathering together unto him, the day of redemption, our glorious hope, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ))


I am not familiar with Irvine or Darby, nor would I find it necessary to read their work since Jesus Christ plainly lays it out in the Epistles, when He had Paul write it by revelation.(Gal 1:12)

If by stating the gathering together is not in the Bible ….you would be partially right. You will not find reference or prophecy in the Old Testament, nor will you find any in the gospels…….for good reason.

The mystery of the one body, the age or administration of Grace, Jew & Gentiles being fellow heirs, was not revealed until after Pentecost and not fully realized until some time later when Paul received the revelation (Eph 3:5) from Jesus Christ.

Everything that Jesus spoke of in the gospels…. and prophecy throughout the OT are all giving reference to the tribulation period. Which under normal circumstances should have been the upcoming event…

However ….God had something up His spiritual sleeve, and with that something….. He hit the pause button on the 69th week.

The Mystery….the (sacred secret) that was kept hid in God. Something even the prophets of old and the angels searched for this period of time between suffering and the glory and could not find this period of the great mystērion (sacred secret) that God had kept hidden. (1Pe 1:10-12)

And I have to conclude….. that the man part of Jesus Christ did not know of.…. because, His teachings that He spoke of in the gospels, reference the tribulation period ….it’s either that, or He lied…. and Jesus absolutely did NOT lie. Even His statement in Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Was referencing the tribulation time…. Which was to take place ….but for the interruption that God had kept hidden (1Co 2:7&8)

There are several differences between the rapture and the tribulation period that are notable in the Bible. For instance When Jesus Comes for the Church of Grace (rapture) He never sets foot on the earth….we all meet Him in the air….and when I say we all….. it’s referring to dead or alive in Christ who were born again…it is not called a resurrection 1Th 4:16&17 because not all the dead will be raised….only those who have accepted Christ in the grace administration.. “and the dead in Christ shall rise first.” Those who have not accepted Christ will be at the resurrection of the just and the unjust.

The word meet (apantēsis) in verse 17 is used of meet and return with….and so shall we ever (always, evermore) be with the Lord.

Are we caught up together with Him in the tribulation time?

The dead in Christ rise first …. Do they do that in the tribulation period?

With a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: Not quite like a thief in the night.

When Jesus returns with us after what I believe is around 7 years, the Bible says…. His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. That is a big difference from meeting Him in the air.

You just can’t correlate the two without throwing out several scripture.


2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of the Lord is at hand.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first (hē apostasia should read the departure) and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Immediately following the departure …the pause button is taken off and play resumes…. the tribulation period technically starts….and the events of the scripture you posted will take place.

 

[Davy]

I may be reading between the lines a bit …. but I get the impression that you disagree with me….
You could have just stated that… and I would have been cool with it….. But instead, you attempted to assail my character, which is really petty…. And other than your accusations about me being untrue …it shows your disregard for the body of Christ…of which we are both members.

When one makes claims to knowledge in God's Word, and then instead of staying with it they push men's theories in place of it, that one is responsible for their actions. So whatever rebuke I give for straying from God's Word as written is nothing compared to the rebuke Lord Jesus will give when He returns. So I say, let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Davy]

What may surprise you is …. I do not see a problem whatsoever with the scripture you quoted, in fact it emphasizes what I previously posted ↓ regarding the “day of the Lord”

((Day of the Lord and/or the Lords day → reference the tribulation …not the return of Christ for the Church. Some of the references to the “rapture” are → gathering together unto him, the day of redemption, our glorious hope, the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. ))

Right off the bat you are fibbing again, because you above claim the "day of the Lord" is referencing the tribulation time, and not for the return of Christ (on the last day). And those Scripture snippets you quoted are taken out of the actual Bible context where they appear, and are instead cast into a melting-pot of men's false pre-trib rapture theories.

I showed you per God's written Word that the "day of the Lord" event cannot be at any other time than the very 'last day' of this world when Jesus returns to fight Armageddon and end the reign of the wicked. The false pre-trib rapture theory from men instead claims the "day of the Lord" is about the "great tribulation" time, and that is what you follow, which is NOT written in God's Word.

 

[Davy]

Regarding 2 Thessalonians 2 by Apostle Paul, he showed that Christ's coming to gather His Church is at the END of the tribulation, just as Lord Jesus also showed in His Olive discourse (Matthew 24 and Mark 13).

2 Thess 2:1-4
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,

The subject by Paul is the event of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church.

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

That "day of Christ" is actually the "day of the Lord" meaning. That is the day Paul is pointing to, and it ain't meanin' the tribulation time either, but the very last day of this world that His coming will end the tribulation.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
KJV

Both verses 3 and 4 go together. It's about 2 events that MUST happen prior to Christ coming to gather His faithful Church. There must first be a great falling away from Christ to happen, and that "man of sin", the future false-Messiah Jesus warned about that will appear in Jerusalem at the end, MUST be revealed.


2 Thess 2:8
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
KJV

That verse 8 is solid proof that Jesus returns to gather His Church at the END of the great tribulation, because that is when He will destroy that "man of sin", "that Wicked" one. And just so you can be SURE that is the timing Paul is teaching here, Paul shows that event will happen "with the brightness of His coming", meaning Jesus' coming!

So there is NO EXCUSE with listening to LIARS that go directly against the above Scripture by Apostle Paul about the proper time when Jesus comes to gather His faithful Church. Those who go against that Scripture are NOT of His Church, but are fakes, crept in unawares with the goal to deceive God's people, workers of iniquity.