As a thief in the night.

[the particular baptist]

Im going to address BWBaptist's 4 questions later as time permits, but let me just say, that many men of God over nearly two millenia have struggled with the Last Revelation and i think perhaps that it would be incredibly assumptive to say that any one man or teacher has it down pat, and i the least of the least. I am still saved by Grace through faith in the Lord Jesus, I still serve a risen Savior, my deepest desire is to faithfully serve Him, and by God's Grace will be among the ingathering of His people whether its on the Last Day as we amills believe, or pre-trib as our dispy brothers believe. My salvation does not hinge on eschatology, it is anchored in Christ. One thing is for sure, we will understand everything perfectly about eschatology on that Day, but like brother Paul Washer says, we will be in eternity of eternities chasing down the glories of Christ and His Gospel.

 

[LiturgyInDMinor]

Amen brother....Amen!

 

[the particular baptist]

1) How could the period of time from the 1st Advent to the 2nd Advent be the 1000 years of Revelation 20:1-6 if Christ's 2nd Coming is prior to the start of the of His kingdom and the millennium?

Its not, it is my understanding that the 1000 yrs in Rev 20 is the period of time between the First and Second Advents of Christ.

2) If we are currently in the millennium (kingdom) then when was the Beast defeated (as this happens at Christ's 2nd Coming) and when/where is Christ ruling with a "rod of iron"?

Satan was bound by Christ at the beginning of Christ's ministry, from interfering with with the Gospel and the Kingdom work, until near the end of the age, after all the elect have been saved, he will be released to deceive the nations, then the end.

1599 Geneva Bible
Matthew 13:36-43

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

3) If the kingdom started at Christ's 1st Advent, then why was He rejected and killed by the Jews?

Because God planned it that way from before Creation. The sum and substance of the scriptures is the glory of God, thus, our operating assumption; Creation -----> Redemption <----- New Creation

4) Satan is bound after Christ's 2nd Coming, not His first. I already asked if Satan is supposed to be bound now, then why did Peter call him the roaring lion that is walking about. DD2008 answered that Satan is bound from "taking the elect," but then who was Peter talking to?

The enemy indeed walks about like a roaring lion, but he is bound from interfering with the advancement of the Gospel and the Kingdom. He is bound by Christ during His earthly ministry, we know because Christ said so Himself with no ambiguity;

1599 Geneva Bible
Matthew 12:28-29

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


The restrainer is the preaching of the Gospel. See 2nd Thes.

5) Also, to DD2008, you asked if I "believe that Jesus could come back today?" and I answered yes. You then said, "I hope it's today" and "Whatever Christ wants to do. I think he'll just show up one day and get his people." If you believe that Christ could return at any time, then you must believe in a pre-trib rapture as there are too many events that still have to happen before Christ's second coming. Do I understand you right?

We believe in the imminent return of Christ. I dont think a pre-trib, pre-mil can believe in the imminent return. Besides, we are not told to look for signs of His coming, we are to look for Him coming.


Also, i know the dispy brothers dig charts so im including my chart thanks to Dr Riddlebarger

 

[MrJG]

Its not, it is my understanding that the 1000 yrs in Rev 20 is the period of time between the First and Second Advents of Christ.

The millennium of Revelation 20 clearly starts after the Second Coming of Christ (at the Battle of Armageddon).

Satan was bound by Christ at the beginning of Christ's ministry, from interfering with with the Gospel and the Kingdom work, until near the end of the age, after all the elect have been saved, he will be released to deceive the nations, then the end.

I am talking about the Beast. It says in Revelation 20:4 that those who were beheaded were beheaded because they did not receive the mark of the Beast. The Beast demanding that all receive his mark is clearly during the Tribulation Period, but here we have the beheaded in the millennium. So, if we put this on a time line, you have the start of the millennium at Christ's first advent which means that if those beheaded because they did not receive the mark of the Beast are there in the millennium then the tribulation has already occurred and the Beast has already been defeated at the Battle of Armageddon.

1599 Geneva Bible
Matthew 13:36-43

Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field. He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Because God planned it that way from before Creation. The sum and substance of the scriptures is the glory of God, thus, our operating assumption; Creation -----> Redemption <----- New Creation

The millennial kingdom as prophesied is going to begin after Christ's return in power and great glory not after His birth in a lowly manger and death on the cross.

The enemy indeed walks about like a roaring lion, but he is bound from interfering with the advancement of the Gospel and the Kingdom. He is bound by Christ during His earthly ministry, we know because Christ said so Himself with no ambiguity;

1599 Geneva Bible
Matthew 12:28-29

But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man? and then he will spoil his house.


The restrainer is the preaching of the Gospel. See 2nd Thes.

We believe in the imminent return of Christ. I dont think a pre-trib, pre-mil can believe in the imminent return. Besides, we are not told to look for signs of His coming, we are to look for Him coming.

Whoa brother, I have a big problem with this saying. You are saying that we are looking for signs, but I don't believe that anything has to happen before Christ's return, that is His return to rapture the church. The Bible clearly tells us in Matthew 24 what will be the signs of Christ's coming. You are listing the things that you say must happen before Christ can return in the chart below. I would say that you do not believe in the imminent return of Christ (not trying to be critical here) because you believe that we must still go through the Tribulation (which btw, I don't see on the chart) and see the unleashing of Satan.


Also, i know the dispy brothers dig charts so im including my chart thanks to Dr Riddlebarger

Btw, you are right, we "dispies" do like charts although I think I prefer Clarence Larkin's charts over the one you have provided

Here you go: http://www.preservedwords.com/images/lcoming.gif

My precalculus teacher in college told me that if I ever had trouble picturing a word problem in my mind to always draw a picture first.

 

[sablehalloway]

interesting