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Artificial Intelligence Writes a Law for a fictional setting

AlexB23

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Hello folks. AI has been making the rounds lately over the past year or so (NPR article from 2023), and it has come to my attention that AI could in theory be used to write laws.

So, I tested that out, with the locally installed open source AI (Mistral 7B) on my computer writing a basic law for a fictional country on an alien planet. Man, AI is getting scary good. Only a few parts, such as the name of the alien race (the Xa'na) were added by me. My computer got real sweaty, as my laptop is 6 years old.

MIT Tech Review article on AI Writing laws: How AI could write our laws


And here is my AI trying to write some laws.
 

Kylie

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"2.1.1 Definition of Murder: Murder is the unlawful intentional taking of another's life through direct or indirect means."

So what if I order a pizza, and as a result of this, the delivery driver is in a crash and is killed while bringing the pizza. Since I am the indirect cause of his death, am I to be charged with murder?

My intent is not to start a debate, merely to show that getting AI to take over the responsibility of writing laws is not going to result in better laws.
 
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AlexB23

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Haha, that is true. Yeah, AI is not good at writing laws yet, but is getting better. But overall, this was a demo to showcase AI's strengths. I am glad that you pointed out a flaw in the AI's logic. Honestly, I would not trust an AI to write laws anytime soon.
 
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Kylie

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It doesn't appear to be very strong yet.
 
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AlexB23

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It doesn't appear to be very strong yet.
Eventually AI will get more powerful. It can explain the ethics of paywall blockers, but is horrible at math.


AI can write about some things.


AI is bad at math
 
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Kylie

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Eventually AI will get more powerful. It can explain the ethics of paywall blockers, but is horrible at math.


AI can write about some things.
View attachment 346101

AI is bad at math
View attachment 346102
I would disagree. AI can regurgitate things it can source, but that doesn't mean it has any actual understanding. For example, your first example talking about paywalls claims that paywalls level the field for all people who are willing to pay for the content. But this is not true. A struggling student who has no choice but to pay to gain access to an article they need to reference in their university studies is not on a level playing field a rich lawyer who just wants to read it out of bored curiosity. For one, the payment to get past the paywall can be a significant cost, while for the other, it could be unnoticeable. Hardly a level playing field.
 
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AlexB23

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I actually have a thread about the ethics of paywalls in the Ethics & Morality section, and I agree with you, but at the same time, journalists need food on the table. So yeah, students can use a paywall bypass software, but for me, I have turned off my paywall bypass software as of April 18, 2024. Maybe students on university Wi-Fi should have free access to paywalled articles.
 
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Kylie

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Or we could just get rid of money altogether... But that's a discussion for another thread...
 
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AlexB23

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Or we could just get rid of money altogether... But that's a discussion for another thread...
Yeah we could, which would be similar to how Star Trek works, with the replicator (a form of additive manufacturing at a molecular scale). Tech is not there yet, but a bartering economy could be possible.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Yeah we could, which would be similar to how Star Trek works, with the replicator (a form of additive manufacturing at a molecular scale). Tech is not there yet, but a bartering economy could be possible.
Money was invented to overcome the limitations of a bartering economy...
 
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AlexB23

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Money was invented to overcome the limitations of a bartering economy...
That is true, one of the first things we learned about in an economics class. But yeah, money will never become obsolete, until a breakthrough technology comes about. Even communal societies use money. The Star Trek replicators also use energy, and if energy is scarce, then kilowatt-hours will become a currency.
 
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Kylie

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Money was invented to overcome the limitations of a bartering economy...
Money IS barter.

It used to be that if I needed some meat and you needed some fruit I'd trade you for some of the meat I had for some of the fruit you had. As long as we both agreed that the fruit I was giving you had the same value as the meat you were giving me, then it's a fair trade.

We are now doing the same thing, except we use money as one side of the trade.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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OK. It's a question of semantics - I was using the common definition of 'barter' as, "Exchange of goods or services for other goods or services without using money." (my italics).

The key point is that money has no intrinsic value, it is an abstraction, unlike goods and services; in this, it is analogous to energy in physics.
 
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Kylie

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So energy has no intrinsic value either? Then how do the things that use energy know how far to go? For example, how does a nuclear reaction "know" to produce a certain amount of energy from a given amount of radioactive material?

I'd rather argue the opposite.

Barter has no intrinsic value. You may consider a Porsche and a glass of water to be very unequal, yet for a man dying of thirst, I'm sure he'd gladly trade his sports car for a glass of water that will save his life. Gods and services have no intrinsic value either. As long as we both agree that the value of the things we are bartering is equal, that's all that's important.
 
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AlexB23

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Yeah, I have no idea what @FrumiousBandersnatch was going on about, as energy does have value. Nuclear reactions are based upon E = mc².

 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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So energy has no intrinsic value either? Then how do the things that use energy know how far to go? For example, how does a nuclear reaction "know" to produce a certain amount of energy from a given amount of radioactive material?
Energy is just a label for an abstraction of the physical equivalence between certain properties of stuff, it doesn't exist in its own right; there's no such thing as 'pure energy'. When people talk of 'pure energy', they generally mean highly energetic (high frequency) photons.

Stuff in a high-energy state is metastable with respect to its energy and will tend to lose energy in various forms until it reaches a more stable (low energy) state. Radioactive material does this by its unstable atoms decaying to less radioactive material and losing energy as energetic photons, and the kinetic energy of particles with mass. When there are no more unstable atoms, no more energy is released. The amount of energy released per atom depends mostly on the number of 'supernumerary' protons and/or neutrons in the atom, but the mechanisms involved are complex.

Goods and services have utility in themselves. Money is a consensus abstraction, without goods and services to represent, it is useless and meaningless.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Yeah, I have no idea what @FrumiousBandersnatch was going on about, as energy does have value. Nuclear reactions are based upon E = mc².
Energy doesn't have a value, it is a value - a value that relates to an equivalence between certain properties of stuff according to its state or physical context.
 
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Kylie

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But the amount of energy can be measured and we can predict exactly how much energy will be released. That doesn't really fit in with the idea that energy has no intrinsic value.
Goods and services have utility in themselves. Money is a consensus abstraction, without goods and services to represent, it is useless and meaningless.
But the value of a good or service is subjective. The example I gave of a glass of water shows that.

Intrinsic value is how much value something is perceived to have. A glass of water has a higher intrinsic value to a dehydrated man than to a man who has just drunk a liter. After all, the dehydrated man feels a greater need for the water, while the man who's just drunk a liter may not be feeling any thirst at all. Likewise, a service also has no objective value. A person who is extremely busy is likely going to see my dog-walking service as more valuable if they have little time to walk the dog themselves, whereas a retired pensioner who enjoys going for long walks is going to find little value in my service.

But the amount of energy released for a certain amount of petrol when burned can be objectively measured. It's not going to produce a different amount of energy for different people based on how important they find that energy.
 
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AlexB23

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Energy doesn't have a value, it is a value - a value that relates to an equivalence between certain properties of stuff according to its state or physical context.
Yes, energy is a value, but can be measured by a value, such as Joules or kWh, or whatever unit has this form:



Formula from Wolfram|Alpha: energy - Wolfram|Alpha
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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But the amount of energy can be measured and we can predict exactly how much energy will be released. That doesn't really fit in with the idea that energy has no intrinsic value.
If you count the number of bricks in a house and you know the cost of a brick, you know how much financial value those bricks will have if you pull down the house, and if you know the cost of an acre of land, you know how much land the sale of those bricks will get you. The financial value of the bricks and the land is just a number that quantifies the conversion rate of one thing to another, i.e. relates how much of one thing can be converted into some other thing, be it land, bricks, gold, numbers in a bank account, a workman's labour, currency notes, etc.

Energy is analogous (except that, unlike financial value, it is constant and conserved, not subjective). Such numbers have no intrinsic value, they quantify the value of other things.

But the value of a good or service is subjective. The example I gave of a glass of water shows that.
Sure. but the subjective value is the extrinsic value.

We seem to be using different understandings of intrinsic value. The subjective value something has in a particular situation is its extrinsic value. The intrinsic value is the objective value that that thing has in itself, or in its own right, i.e. its fundamental properties that can be objectively measured, things that are not dependent on market demand, user preference or sentiment.

For the Porsche that would presumably inhere in the amount and quality of the materials it is made of, the workmanship, the construction, functionality, its performance, economy, etc. For the glass of water, likewise, the quantity and quality of the glass, the design & functionality, the amount and suitability of the water for drinking, and so-on. There are some philosophical issues about precisely what constitutes intrinsic value (e.g. distilled water is not great drinking water, so does the intended purpose count?), but it's the principle that matters.

But the amount of energy released for a certain amount of petrol when burned can be objectively measured. It's not going to produce a different amount of energy for different people based on how important they find that energy.
Yes, energy quantifies an intrinsic property equivalence. Rearranging the molecular binding of a certain amount oxygen and the hydrocarbons of petrol produces a predictable amount of high-frequency photons and fast-moving molecules, that produce vibrating & colliding atoms in nearby material (heat), and a local increase in the amount and velocity of gas molecules (pressure). This conversion is quantified using an indirectly observed abstract conserved property called energy.

Molecular binding energy, light energy, thermal energy, kinetic energy, gravitational potential energy, etc., are the names we give to the values of certain properties (states or contexts) of stuff, using a common unit that we use to quantify the conversion between those properties.
 
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