Arranged Marriages

[Hetta]

There was a deal of anger, bitterness and resentment on my part when I compared my lifestyle with that of my peers. In the early years the resentment got in the way of loving my wife. I was 19 at the time and my friends had plenty of money, cars and went out a lot, while my wife and I were stuck at home. But the marriage lasted 25 years.

I changed careers and thought I could do better. So I took the path many men have trod and went to find a younger version of what I thought would be the ideal wife.

( Oh stupid man! Why didn't you remember what your father said about letting your trousers rule your head!)

Second marriage is in a mess and we have been separated for over 2 years. (Lost 6 bedroom house and savings in the process.)

I suppose if my parents had chosen a wife for me would it had been any different? Maybe --- I don't know?

I can understand reviewing your life in light of these experiences. But at least you have an insight into where you, personally, have gone wrong - the mistakes you have made. Although it sounds weird, I think you are better off than those who are miserably bitter, but they blame it all on the other person.

I am sorry for where you find yourself. Not much comfort, I know, but just to let you know that I hear you.

 

[keith99]

Now I'm going to have to read that book. Apparently- the villages some are from in certain parts of the world can dictate who is acceptable to socialize with or marry. There was an older couple at my parish (neither of whom had good English and were hard to understand) who have both passed on now, that tried to explain to me how they were from different villages (probably Lebanon- but it wasn't made too clear to me) and her parents wouldn't approve their marriage. Essentially, they eloped, but they both insisted it was a kidnapping. They were very much in love to the end- but they both sought to assure me that bride kidnapping wasn't done or acceptable there anymore.

It is still an interesting book. It seems the story is slanted and not entirely accurate.

Interestingly here the claim is the opposite of many I have heard. it was boys from the same village that were unacceptable mainly for inbreeding issues (perhaps a lesson learned the hard way generations before). Note the advantages of mixing between villages, it means kin in the next village over, less chance of violent conflict and a far better chance of help is there are issues with outsiders.

I'm going to give one small spoiler. It seems the wedding ceremony even includes a part where the bride runs to her mother and has to be physically pulled away. This is NOT because the groom is horrible in any way, it is because historically the couple set up house in his village and because of the same travel dangers it means she will rarely if ever see the friends she grew up with or her family again.

 

[Hetta]

I used to think so, still do really, but I realized it is not as simple as some see it after reading 'Three Cups of Tea'.

What is just background for the biographical story is how things are in remote villages. There are basically 2 choices. Arranged marriages or dangerous inbreeding.

When it is a 2-3 day trip to the nearest village, a trip that is unsafe for an unescorted female the idea of courtship starts to have problems. When one realizes that this is true subsistence farming one realizes no one, man or woman can afford to take days off from productive work, especially for a marriage that may not happen.

But that's a whole 'nother ball game. Most people are not raised in a village where there are only 50 people or whatever. Obviously you would want to be very, very careful, particularly as I assume there is no access to genetic testing.

But for the most of us, raised in huge cities, it would be rare to bump into, fall in love with and marry a close relative.

 

[keith99]

But that's a whole 'nother ball game. Most people are not raised in a village where there are only 50 people or whatever. Obviously you would want to be very, very careful, particularly as I assume there is no access to genetic testing.

But for the most of us, raised in huge cities, it would be rare to bump into, fall in love with and marry a close relative.

Yea the situation I spoke of is one where an arranged marriage means the parents, mainly the father, who actually ahs a change to get to know someone does the shopping for a husband rather than selecting totally blind. So it actually means the girl in question gains input into the selection.

 

[PsychoSarah]

Comment, many arranged marriages of the past, and some to this day, are purposely setting people up to marry cousins or other such relatives that aren't siblings or parents.

 

[FlawedSheep]

Undertaken sympathetically and with great consideration arranged marriages are no better or worse than those without family members pulling the strings. The dynamics are, generally, slightly different but providing there is no force involved and both parties are willing to enter into it then the foundations are laid. There are plenty of examples of arranged marriages which fail, and depending on the culture/family/country the consequences of one or both parties wishing to break the marriage vary in severity.

Would it help divorce rates? Not really, not unless the arrangement came coupled with a strong sense of duty towards making the marriage work. Or even the sense of shame that would be coupled with divorce, it's not just shame of the divorce but shame on the respective families. Shame and duty can be powerful motivations for someone to remain within a marriage. But then if those involved were not mourning the loss of a whirlwind romance with a mystery stranger, and were content to build a marriage up with the one they were paired up for, it can develop into a very strong marriage indeed.

Just like any other marriage, it all depends on the people involved.

 

[ebia]

Not talking about forced marriages. Bearing in mind the huge increase in divorce over recent years, would a little help from family in choosing a spouse go amiss.

Arranged marriages work in a culture that expects them.

But they would be an incredibly bad fit in our culture of individualised consumerism. And where love is an irrational uncontrollable feeling, not a choice.

 

[SoldierOfTheKing]

Comment, many arranged marriages of the past, and some to this day, are purposely setting people up to marry cousins or other such relatives that aren't siblings or parents.

During my first tour in Iraq, I read about this in the Army's handbook on Iraqi cultural customs. Parents, when their child reaches marrying age, will first consider whether their siblings have children of marrying age. The first cousins are the first candidate. If no first cousin is availible a second cousin will do. If no second cousin, a third. Marrying outside the family is a last resort, and requires a lot of negotiations, not just between the bride and the groom, but between the families as a whole.

 

[PsychoSarah]

During my first tour in Iraq, I read about this in the Army's handbook on Iraqi cultural customs. Parents, when their child reaches marrying age, will first consider whether their siblings have children of marrying age. The first cousins are the first candidate. If no first cousin is availible a second cousin will do. If no second cousin, a third. Marrying outside the family is a last resort, and requires a lot of negotiations, not just between the bride and the groom, but between the families as a whole.

Ugh, don't remind me of the details.

 

[OGM]

During my first tour in Iraq, I read about this in the Army's handbook on Iraqi cultural customs. Parents, when their child reaches marrying age, will first consider whether their siblings have children of marrying age. The first cousins are the first candidate. If no first cousin is availible a second cousin will do. If no second cousin, a third. Marrying outside the family is a last resort, and requires a lot of negotiations, not just between the bride and the groom, but between the families as a whole.

So much for genetic diversity.

 

[PsychoSarah]

So much for genetic diversity.

IKR? And people wonder why they are having increasing fertility issues in the Middle East.

 

[ebia]

IKR? And people wonder why they are having increasing fertility issues in the Middle East.

Assuming this is true for Iraq (which I'm not overly convinced about) Iraqi culture is not identical with the whole Middle East.

 

[Inkachu]

It totally depends on who's doing the matching, and how well they know you. I would NEVER let my parents match me, because despite what they think, they don't know me well at all. They'd match me with who they'd want me to be with. They'd match me based on their delusional, non-existent version of me. I'm pretty resilient and adaptable, and I probably would have survived, but... NO thanks.

 

[PsychoSarah]

It totally depends on who's doing the matching, and how well they know you. I would NEVER let my parents match me, because despite what they think, they don't know me well at all. They'd match me with who they'd want me to be with. They'd match me based on their delusional, non-existent version of me. I'm pretty resilient and adaptable, and I probably would have survived, but... NO thanks.

I don't care how well the parents know their kids, you can't just pick out someone and know for sure your kid will love them.

 

[Inkachu]

I don't care how well the parents know their kids, you can't just pick out someone and know for sure your kid will love them.

Agreed, but love is also a choice and a commitment, and it can be learned and nurtured over time, even if it isn't instant sparks and fireworks. I'd still want to pick my own mate, though, just cause I'm odd, and I need an odd mate

 

[PsychoSarah]

Agreed, but love is also a choice and a commitment, and it can be learned and nurtured over time, even if it isn't instant sparks and fireworks. I'd still want to pick my own mate, though, just cause I'm odd, and I need an odd mate

Oh no, I couldn't date someone like me, I am already too much me to handle as it is!

 

[Hetta]

It totally depends on who's doing the matching, and how well they know you. I would NEVER let my parents match me, because despite what they think, they don't know me well at all. They'd match me with who they'd want me to be with. They'd match me based on their delusional, non-existent version of me. I'm pretty resilient and adaptable, and I probably would have survived, but... NO thanks.

In the past, parents matched kids according to land ownership and inheritance. On the higher levels of society, a woman whose parents had no son but had plenty of money would marry her to a titled man who had no money but land he could barely afford to keep and a title. The woman's family would gain from the ennoblement - particularly if they were nouveau riche - and of course the titled family would gain from the income.

Hey Inka, you have been watching Downton Abbey - that's why the Duke is married to an American! He had that fabulous home, lots of land, but no money to keep it up. So he was matched with a rich American woman. As it happened, love grew out of it, but there were plenty such matches across time where it did not. Where it was a marriage only on paper. (This is referenced in the first season I believe.)

In the poorer stratas of society, healthy farm girls were married off to the sons of neighboring farmers for land exchange or cattle. That's where the whole concept of dowry comes from - or the 'bride price'. I have to stop here because I'm getting disgusted. :/

 

[Cearbhall]

Not talking about forced marriages.

Bearing in mind the huge increase in divorce over recent years, would a little help from family in choosing a spouse go amiss.

I'll definitely ask to hear the opinions of my immediate family members, but I don't see any benefit in going far enough to call it "arranged." That would only make sense if I lived at home and were forced to have a chaperone on dates (meaning that my family and I would have basically the same amount of knowledge about the person and our relationship).

 

[PsychoSarah]

I'll definitely ask to hear the opinions of my immediate family members, but I don't see any benefit in going far enough to call it "arranged." That would only make sense if I lived at home and were forced to have a chaperone on dates (meaning that my family and I would have basically the same amount of knowledge about the person and our relationship).

No, my mom is a helicopter parent enough as it is, that would be so awkward. Or worse, my step dad, ugh, he is so intimidating people would run in fear!

 

[keith99]

I'll definitely ask to hear the opinions of my immediate family members, but I don't see any benefit in going far enough to call it "arranged." That would only make sense if I lived at home and were forced to have a chaperone on dates (meaning that my family and I would have basically the same amount of knowledge about the person and our relationship).

What good is it having someone with eth same knowledge?

And as I've pointed out before often the way someone behaves on dates is the worst possible way to judge their character or compatibility.

What is helpful is having someone who sees a different side. To take it to a different time and place it can be really helpful to have a brother of cousin who works in the mine with that great guy you are dating. A relative who knows mister charming on dates is a right royal B***** with a dangerous temper at work and mean drunk in the pub afterwards. Or one who knows the tongue tied shy guy would give his life to protect those he cares about and that his shyness gets worse the more he cares, until he gains some confidence. (Yea and he is really really shy around you).