Arminians

Koey said:

Works of the law and good works are two different things are they not? How do I know which is being spoken of when you say that faith without works saves? Didn't James say that faith without works is dead? Isn't saving faith a faith that must include or be evidenced by good works? Didn't Jesus tell the Pharisees to go and produce fruits (ie. works) that proved their repentance? Is this not a package whose components (faith, repentance and good works) go together?

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I would say works of the law and works of faith are different. Works of the law are of no value as the law is of the Old Covenant and we are not under the old covenant.

James talks about works of faith. The best interpretation of 2 james I have heard is that the kind of faith that saves is the kind of faith from which good works naturaly come. You don't do good works to try to get into heave, you do good works because you are going to heaven.

Isn't saving faith a faith that must include or be evidenced by good works?

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Replace the word "must" with the word "will", and you may begin to see the real picture.

Now this is really funny:

No, they don't. They teach salvation by grace alone through faith alone.

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Followed quickly by:

If you choose Christ you make a profession of faith (See Romans 9) and are saved.

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(emphasis mine)

Our flesh always wants that if you doesn't it? We always want to put the cart (ourselves) in front of the horse (God). Again, if we change a word or two, the biblical perspective can be demonstrated: If you are saved, you will choose Christ and make a profession of faith.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

bradfordl said:

Our flesh always wants that if you doesn't it? We always want to put the cart (ourselves) in front of the horse (God). Again, if we change a word or two, the biblical perspective can be demonstrated: If you are saved, you will choose Christ and make a profession of faith.

1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

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The sentence in red is a little of and not quite biblical. Romans 10:9 (NIV) says "That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

There is no requirement in this verse that says how you come to that confessionof faith and heart felt belief. Whether it is predestined by God, or God made us a participant in our own salvation, is not an essential component of salvation.

Boxmaker said:

There is no requirement in this verse that says how you come to that confessionof faith and heart felt belief. Whether it is predestined by God, or God made us a participant in our own salvation, is not an essential component of salvation.

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Acts 13:

[48] And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and AS MANY AS were ordained to eternal life believed.

Me: Isn't saving faith a faith that must include or be evidenced by good works?
Somebody: Replace the word "must" with the word "will", and you may begin to see the real picture.
Me again: Why then does James say that faith without works is dead? Does this not lean more towards a "must" than a "will"?

Koey said:

Me: Isn't saving faith a faith that must include or be evidenced by good works?
Somebody: Replace the word "must" with the word "will", and you may begin to see the real picture.
Me again: Why then does James say that faith without works is dead? Does this not lean more towards a "must" than a "will"?

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What James is trying to say is that the kind of faith that saves is the kind of faith from which good works naturally arise. The best way I have ever heard it explained is this: You don't do good works to get into Heaven, you do good works because you already going to heaven.

Mathew 25 supports this. I am thinking of the sheep and the goats. The sheep just helped those in need and didn't even relize they were doing it. The goats did all the same things but for all the wrong reason so the works meant nothing.

Do good works because you want to, not because you have to.

Koey said:

Me: Isn't saving faith a faith that must include or be evidenced by good works?
Somebody: Replace the word "must" with the word "will", and you may begin to see the real picture.
Me again: Why then does James say that faith without works is dead? Does this not lean more towards a "must" than a "will"?

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James rightly says, faith without works is dead, being by itself. He is here describing a faith that knows the gospel and even agrees with it, but has fallen short of trust in God. Failure to grow, develop, and bear the fruits of righteousness shows that the free gift of God in Christ has never been received.
James is concerned about those who merely say they believe but do not actually and genuinely believe. If they did, their behaviour would be holy, manifesting their heart-faith. In this sense faith and works are inseparable, but as regards the obtainment of salvation, it is not what is done in us, but what is done for us (on Calvary) that matters. But if we really look upon the crucified and risen Saviour, our lives would necessarily be transformed. It cannot be otherwise.

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You could say that even a thief or mass murderer and degenerate unrepentant sinners alike could very well give money to the poor, give up one of their kidneys to a person in need, or even help an elderly person cross the street and others would consider these things "good works". or selfless good deeds.

So does that mean that these people who are doing these selfless acts or "good works" are saved?

Does it mean that these people bear fruits of the Spirit?
Certainly NOT!

Does this mean that because they did a good work, that they believe and have faith in Jesus Christ?
I don't think so.


You know what Paul says about good works don't you?


Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works (not of anything you have to DO), lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for (to do) good works, which God prepared beforehand (from the foundation of the world) that we should walk in them.


So, if you are truly a child of God, you WILL do good works and selfless acts to Glorify God alone and not yourself. You WILL bear FRUITS as evidence of the Holy Spirit working in you as God prepared you beforehand that you should do this. And if God Himself has prepared us, as ones counted as the seed of the promise, for good works from the foundation of the world, Do you have the "free will" NOT to do them? If you do, we would have a very frustrated God indeed! Simply saying that His preparation in YOU has failed. Because you chose NOT to do so, if you could.



So indeed, faith without works IS dead! One who does NOT do "good works" to glorify God and says they believe in Jesus Christ, who does NOT bear good fruits of TRUE saving faith and evidence of the Spirit within them does NOT believe in the true Jesus Christ, but rather, in something else. Their self-glorifying "good works" before men.



True saving Faith is the "act" of believing in the unseen God as a free gift given to the heart and life of the true believer. Which is soley the work of the Holy Spirit who works in the heart of the previously dead in trespasses and unrepentant sinner and gives one true saving faith in our savior Jesus Christ. Causing us to walk in His statutes, causing us to keep His commandments, causing us to put our trust in Him for all things and in all things, for His sake alone.



Ezekiel 36:27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.


I really would like to know, just how much do you esteem your own good works???


Do you think that your good works, accompanied by your faith, is the reason you are going to Heaven?


How good and righteous are your works that they will be pleasing to the ALL Righteous, ALL knowing, before you even do it, God?


Should our best works be seen as nothing more than filthy rags before our Perfectly Righteous Almighty God?


Do you have anything to boast of your "good works" before God?

Do you understand that it is God alone that works in His creation to WILL and TO DO for His good pleasure?

Philippians 2:13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.


It is not that we MUST do anything. But rather, we WILL do and bear fruits if Gods will has ordained you to do so. For His good pleasure and purpose. How much credit or merit of His favor will you claim for yourself?


You say that it implies that we "must" do these good works, but we say that fruits of the Spirit that dwell within us produce these works that we WILL do to Glorify God as evidence of the Spirit working in us to do good works.

This is probably going to sound stupid, in the middle of all these smart people. But here is the way I explained it to my girls.

If I say I believe (have faith that) a particular old rickety looking chair will hold me up if I sit in it, but then I refuse to sit in it, is my proclamation of faith real? No. It means I am only saying I have faith. But if I say I believe it, and then sit in that chair, that shows that I really do believe what I say I believe, and that my faith is genuine.

The same way with Christ. If I say I believe in Him and have faith in Him, but then refuse to do what He has commanded (giving, for example), because of fear or whatever reason, then I show that my faith is not real. True faith always results in works. This is what James was saying.

Good comments! That's just how a Catholic priest explained it to me too.

kimlva said:

This is probably going to sound stupid, in the middle of all these smart people. But here is the way I explained it to my girls.

If I say I believe (have faith that) a particular old rickety looking chair will hold me up if I sit in it, but then I refuse to sit in it, is my proclamation of faith real? No. It means I am only saying I have faith. But if I say I believe it, and then sit in that chair, that shows that I really do believe what I say I believe, and that my faith is genuine.

The same way with Christ. If I say I believe in Him and have faith in Him, but then refuse to do what He has commanded (giving, for example), because of fear or whatever reason, then I show that my faith is not real. True faith always results in works. This is what James was saying.

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Why does an apple tree produce apples?

UMP said:

Why does an apple tree produce apples?

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because it is a apple bearing tree by NATURE! Its nature is to bear fruits of apples. Just as those given a new nature, a new heart, by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit FIRST to produce fruits of the Spirit. Those who truly have been born of the Spirit WILL bear furits of the Spirit by their newly God given nature. I know you understand this as a Calvinist. I just responded to give the answer to those who do not understand. I hope this may help.

GodsElect said:

because it is a apple bearing tree by NATURE! Its nature is to bear fruits of apples. Just as those given a new nature, a new heart, by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit FIRST to produce fruits of the Spirit. Those who truly have been born of the Spirit WILL bear furits of the Spirit by their newly God given nature. I know you understand this as a Calvinist. I just responded to give the answer to those who do not understand. I hope this may help.

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Bingo!
Yep, apple trees produce apples....because they're apple trees. Can the tree boast in it's fruit? Nope, God get's ALL the glory, from start to finish.
Personally, I moan the fact that I feel very lacking in fruit\good works. The only solution that I can think of is prayer. "God, PLEASE give me good works to walk in." Thankfully I have this promise from God:

Matthew 7:
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?






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kimlva said:

True faith always results in works. This is what James was saying.

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So then what are good works?

FreeInChrist2

New thread started
So Then What Are Good Works?

kimlva said:

True faith always results in works. This is what James was saying.

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Numbers 16:28
And Moses said: &#8220;By this you shall know that the LORD has sent me to do all these works, for I have not done them of my own will.


James 2:14-2:26

Faith Without Works Is Dead

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, &#8220;Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,&#8221; but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, &#8220;You have faith, and I have works.&#8221; Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe&#8212;and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, &#8220;Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.&#8221; And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

With our faith; Are we not called to do good works and bare our fruit (keep his commandments)? Most men interpet works as something they did to accept their faith, not something they are called to do. We are not saved by our works. Our works justify our faith. Keep in mind our faith and good works come from God. We can't choose to accept Gods word without God giving us the ability to accept Him in the first place.

Titus 1:16
They profess to know God, but in works they deny Him, being abominable, disobedient, and disqualified for every good work.

What kind of works? Works of deceivers!(work of men, through men, of men instead of work of God, through God of God)

Titus 3:14
And let our people also learn to maintain good works, to meet urgent needs, that they may not be unfruitful.

Our calling

John 15:16
You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you.

How we received our calling and what we are called to do

Psalm 14:2-3
2 The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. 3 They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good, No, not one.

None of us are good or seek to do good works without Gods grace.

Romans 9:11
(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Matthew 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

Evidence of predestination are in bold and red in some of the last five quotes.

All of our good works and all that we do we are called to do it all for Gods pleasure. We are called to live Godly lives. A Godly live is perfect. It is imposible for man to live perfect. Hence we will always be sinners. Because we will not keep all of Gods laws. So we must ask for forgivness and repent for our sins.

Psalm 103:20-22
20 Bless the LORD, you His angels, Who excel in strength, who do His word, Heeding the voice of His word. 21 Bless the LORD, all you His hosts, You ministers of His, who do His pleasure. 22 Bless the LORD, all His works, In all places of His dominion.
Bless the LORD, O my soul!

Matthew 5:48
Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Psalm 51:12-14
12 Restore to me the joy of Your salvation, And uphold me by Your generous Spirit. 13 Then I will teach transgressors Your ways, And sinners shall be converted to You. 14 Deliver me from the guilt of bloodshed, O God, The God of my salvation, And my tongue shall sing aloud of Your righteousness.

1 Timothy 1:14-16
14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.

May God bless our weary hearts if he so chooses!

In all this, I mention a church that I know of where a (Calvinist) Presbyterian congregation and a Methodist (Arminian) congregation meet together under the one roof each Sunday. I dream of the day when this Calvinist-Arminians war is over and that all Calvinists and Arminians will look upon each other not as heretics but as brethren, much as Calvin and Arminius themselves respected each other's faith.

Koey said:

In all this, I mention a church that I know of where a (Calvinist) Presbyterian congregation and a Methodist (Arminian) congregation meet together under the one roof each Sunday. I dream of the day when this Calvinist-Arminians war is over and that all Calvinists and Arminians will look upon each other not as heretics but as brethren, much as Calvin and Arminius themselves respected each other's faith.

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We can't be brethren. I feel this is a peacful debate.

"After the reading of Scripture, which I strenuously inculcate, and more than any other ... I recommend that the Commentaries of Calvin be read ... For I affirm that in the interpretation of the Scriptures Calvin is incomparable, and that his Commentaries are more to be valued than anything that is handed down to us in the writings of the Fathers -- so much that I concede to him a certain spirit of prophecy in which he stands distinguished above others, above most, indeed, above all" -Jacobus Arminius (1560-1609)

[FONT=arial, helvetica] DOCTRINES and TEACHINGS of CURRENT ARMINIAN THEOLOGY

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1. [FONT=arial, helvetica][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica]
2. Chapter 7 of Paul's Epistle to the Romans refers to the unbeliever and not the believer.
3. Man has the capability to choose or reject God even while unregenerate.
4. God provides a "common grace" that is given to all men, that enables them to overcome the effects of the fall and gives sufficient power to exercise their "free will" in order to choose or reject God.
5. God "predestines" to salvation only those people who He "foreknows" that in the future will choose Him through their own free will. God's action is dependent on the choice that a person makes.
6. As a result of the ability to exercise "free will", even after becoming a Christian or becoming regenerate, a person can reject the faith, fall away, lose their salvation and be condemned to hell.
7. Assurance of salvation cannot be known and people can lose and regain their salvation as they will, sometimes many times.[/FONT]

[FONT=arial, helvetica] PROBLEMS IN THE DOCTRINES and TEACHINGS of CURRENT ARMINIAN THEOLOGY

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1. [FONT=arial, helvetica][/FONT][FONT=arial, helvetica]
2. The belief that Chapter 7 of Romans does not refer to the believer is to deny the logical organization of the book and the argument by Paul. If, in verse 15, Paul states that, "... I am doing the very thing I hate" (NAS), then how is it possible for Paul to hate sin and love God prior to being saved or regenerated? This would contradict Paul's own conversion experience, in which he was on a mission to persecute Christians, rather than seeking after God.
   cf. Romans Verse By Verse, William R. Newell, Chapter 7, pp.250- 285
3. The belief that man has the capability to choose or reject God, even while unregenerate, denies the depravity of man. It is precisely man's inability to choose right or choose God that places him in the predicament in which he is found. It is man's nature that places him in a fallen condition, unable to respond to spiritual affairs, because his own personal sin is more comfortable than a relationship with God. Also, the Bible states that unregenerate men are spiritually "dead", incapable of responding. Just as a physically dead body is unable to respond to external or internal stimuli, the spiritually dead soul is unable to respond to spiritual stimuli. Because all men are in the same condition, unable to choose other than what is sinful and wrong, it must be, of a necessity, that God is the One to act on behalf of man bring him to Himself. That is the whole point of the Biblical record and the message of the gospel. Men cannot bring themselves to God or save themselves. It is the purpose of every other religion in the world, to teach that man can attain to goodness, be acceptable to God or attain to godhood, through actions of works or by reformation of character.
   
   And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
   The Holy Bible, Ephesians 2:1-3 (NAS)
   
   The wicked, in the haughtiness of his countenance, does not seek Him. All his thoughts are, "There is no God."
   The Holy Bible, Proverbs 10:4 (NAS)
   
   The Lord has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if there are any who understand, who seek after God. They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.
   The Holy Bible, Psalm 14:2-3 (NAS)
4. If God provides a "common grace" that is given to all men, that enables them to overcome the effects of the fall and gives sufficient power to exercise their "free will" in order to choose or reject God, then that doctrine must be taught in the Bible, and it is not. It is a doctrine devised in order to support the Arminian belief.
   
   There is a doctrine of "common grace" that teaches a form of beneficence from God to all humanity, in that He provides a world in which mankind can survive and benefits such as animals and plants for food, heat and light from the sun and rain to provide water for life. However, this is not the type of "common grace" that is postulated by the Arminian.
   cf. Psalm 65:9-13; Matthew 5:45; Acts 14:15-17
   
   The Biblical teaching is that God draws men to Himself; not to a point of decision for or against God, but draws men all the way to Himself.
   cf. John 6:44
5. If God "predestines" to salvation only those people who He "foreknows" that in the future will choose Him through their own free will, then why does He provide a "common grace" to all men, so that they have the ability to choose God, when He knows all of those people who will not choose Him? Why not just "predestine" those who will choose God, instead of providing the "common grace" to everyone in the first place?
   
   By providing this "common grace" to all men, God must then subject His own action and response to the choice or decision that a person makes. Men are then made the determining factor in the proceedings and activities of God, rather than God being the determining factor in the proceedings and activities of men. Man becomes a master or authority over the future history of God, rather than God being the Creator of man and the Lord of the future history of man.
   
   Arminian theology places God in a backward position; salvation beginning with the choice of man, granted by God in reaction to that choice and maintained by the will and choice of man, rather than salvation beginning with God, being granted by the sovereign grace and choice of God and maintained by the pleasure and will of God.
   cf. John 15:16; Romans 8:28-30; Ephesians 1:3-6
6. If, as a result of the ability to exercise "free will", even after becoming a Christian or becoming regenerate, a person can reject the faith, fall away, loose their salvation and be condemned to hell, the actions of God in relation to that person are more inexplicable than those in the granting of "common grace" even to those who would reject God.
   
   It is difficult to understand why would God grant salvation to an individual, when He would know that at a specific time in the future, that person would then choose to reject that salvation and be condemned to hell. That would certainly be a profanation of salvation and a blasphemous treatment of the death of Christ by God Himself.
   cf. Romans 16:25; Jude 24
7. If the assurance of salvation cannot be known and people can loose their salvation as a result of some sinful action or deliberate rejection of the faith, and then again regain their salvation as they will or choose, sometimes many times, then "salvation" is an improper term to use in relation to the process. For the individual who adopts Arminian theology and claims to be a Christian, it is difficult for them to know when they are a Christian, and even more inexplicable, how do they know when they have "lost" their salvation so that they may choose to regain it back again? What does this belief do to the Arminian charge against the Calvinist, that Calvinistic belief leads to license because one is saved forever regardless of conduct? The Arminian view is worse than their charge against the Calvinist, because the Arminian can choose or reject salvation at will.
   
   It is the inability of Arminian theology to provide a foundation, concerning the assurance of salvation, that has lead to the many religious organizations that deal with the insecurity of the believer, thus fostering the many charismatic teachings in which people try to find their assurance through their experiences and feelings. Out of this mentality comes the baptism of the Holy Spirit through tongues, healings, miracles and other charismatic "signs" that are considered to be the confirmation that a person is saved, at least for the time of the manifestation. The uncertainty of salvation within these groups brings about a continual search for a "sign" rather than a process of sanctification in order to be conformed to the image of Christ. Seeking after a "sign" leads many into the most bizarre of situations, such as the "Toronto Blessing", in the attempt to find some mythical feeling of satisfaction that guarantees their possession of salvation. Those who never go beyond the search for a "sign" will never attain to the level or spirituality commanded in the Scripture, and may, through their own self-fulfilling prophecy of the inability to be sure of salvation, miss that salvation at the beginning.[/FONT]

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It is not sure if Arminius understood the ultimate conclusion of what he proposed, in that he stripped God of His sovereignty, making Him subservient to His creation rather than His creation subservient to Him.

The Arminian is faced with a serious dilemma when approaching Isaiah 45:9-13, Jeremiah 18:1-6 and Romans 9. In those chapters, the subservience of man to the sovereignty of God is clearly taught. One must read the Scripture. The absolute sovereignty of God in the affairs of man is taught, and man's failure to seek God, through his own choice, is also taught. The Arminian may not substitute man's will in place of God's sovereignty Romans Chapter 9. It is not the responsibility of men to reconcile those actions in relation to explanations provided by men themselves. God does not need to resolve any apparent differences, because He is the author of the process and rules under which He conducts His own affairs. God has already noted the nature of His responsibility and has guaranteed His promise that He will act in accordance with His character and the Holiness of His being.

I the Lord Search the heart and examine the mind, to reward a man according to his conduct, according to what his deeds deserve."
The Holy Bible, Jeremiah 17:10 (NIV)

I found this article somewhere on the net. Thought it would be a good read.

YOU MUST READ THIS! CLICK ON THE LINK BELOW!

http://www.eschatology.com/sovereignty.html
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That is all very well and good, and I appreciate the effort. It was very good, but I notice that you did three things:

1. You lumped Arminianism into one camp. Do you have material discussing the weaknesses of each form?

2. You neglected to show the balance, of weaknesses of Calvinism in its various forms. Are there any that you personally are dissatisfied with, or are you a one-eyed Calvinist?

3. You failed to mention that there are some people who are Calvinian, or is that Calvo-Arminian? Do you believe that is wrong too?

I attended a very good graduate school of theology, where the professors were both Calvinists and Arminians. They honored each other, and when it came to explaining each other's positions, they were very even-handed and unbiased, showing the strengths and weaknesses of each side.

They did not compromise their personal faith in either side, but did consider each other brothers in the faith, and I found their treatment of each other to be the most gracious that I have ever seen on this issue. What is your take? Do you consider Arminians to be fellow believers, as did Calvin of Arminius? Or are you one of those hyper-Calvinists, who calls Arminians heretics?

Koey said:

That is all very well and good, and I appreciate the effort. It was very good, but I notice that you did three things:

1. You lumped Arminianism into one camp. Do you have material discussing the weaknesses of each form?

2. You neglected to show the balance, of weaknesses of Calvinism in its various forms. Are there any that you personally are dissatisfied with, or are you a one-eyed Calvinist?

3. You failed to mention that there are some people who are Calvinian, or is that Calvo-Arminian? Do you believe that is wrong too?

I attended a very good graduate school of theology, where the professors were both Calvinists and Arminians. They honored each other, and when it came to explaining each other's positions, they were very even-handed and unbiased, showing the strengths and weaknesses of each side.

They did not compromise their personal faith in either side, but did consider each other brothers in the faith, and I found their treatment of each other to be the most gracious that I have ever seen on this issue. What is your take? Do you consider Arminians to be fellow believers, as did Calvin of Arminius? Or are you one of those hyper-Calvinists, who calls Arminians heretics?

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Please forgive me, time evades me at this point. However, I will answer in due time.

The graduate school sounds libral to me. A theology school that teaches right and wrong theologies?

Man's doctrine: Can't we all just get along?
We can coexist, and I treat my nighbors with respect and love. I try my best to wittness, but my best is not good enough. However we can't be brethern. There is only one true God and His true word and man won't interpet it, God will. Therefore to be bretheren in the word it must be the same word! The true Word of God! Which I completely trust! I don't interpet it! I understand it!

Luke 8:21
But He answered and said to them, “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it.”

Hyper Calvinists don't say anything at all! They don't evangalize! They say "it's all up to God, we don't have to do anything!""We're heirs to a throne we don't have any responsibility."" We're the Elect"

Thats Hyper Calvinism

Hyper:

noun Informal.
a person who promotes or publicizes events, people, etc., esp. one who uses flamboyant or questionable methods; promoter; publicist.

–adjective
1.overexcited; overstimulated; keyed up.
2.seriously or obsessively concerned; fanatical; rabid: She's hyper about noise pollution.
3.hyperactive. –noun
4.a person who is hyper. adj. Slang

1. Having a very excitable or nervous temperament; high-strung.
2. Emotionally stimulated or overexcited

God is in complete controll, however we are responsible to fulfill our calling. Pray for the lost, blind, deaf and dead. We are to evagilize, try to keep His Comandments. We fall so short!

People misuse that term Hyper Calvinist. It's sad!

Do you think Calvin would call Calvinism?
I think not! He would call it the word of God!

The Synod of Dort established the summary of each theologine into five points. Hence we have Arminainism and Calvinism. When people didn't agree with each one of the views of Arminainism or Calvinism they started other churches. Most of which, miss interpet God's word entirely. Scripture interpets Scripture! Man cannot interpet it! Only by the Grace of God can we understand it! Different beliefs usually stem from man's hurt pride and feelings.
Sorry got to go. Talk with you later.

"right and wrong theologies"...? I think that's a bit too judgmental for me.

Koey said:

"right and wrong theologies"...? I think that's a bit too judgmental for me.

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We as Christians are called to test the Spirit's. We are also called to judge men by their fruit!

Look it up in Scripture.