Arminianism versus Calvinism

[GeneSnider]

Hi all, this is my first post!

I grew up in a Presbyterian church but I attend an Assembly of God church now. So this topic has always fascinated me. I recently boiled my thoughts down to two short questions. When someone denies that we posses Libertarian Free Will, ask them this.

"So you mean that every soldier who ever threw his body on a hand grenade to save his brothers in arms didn't possess Libertarian Free Will? He just had a suicide complex and never knew it?"

If they demand a biblical reference, offer them Romans 5:6-8

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—
8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Since Christ was a man in all ways, these verses apply to a man as well as to Christ.

Regards,
Gene

 

[NBB]

The parable that Jesus tells about the 'great dinner'

He says he invited people, but they refused, some were busy with their business other about to get married etc in the parable.
So angry, he invited people that would accept, the blind the crippled, and then went to force people in all he could.

So calvinism would say people were destined to hell, but this parable tell us, that they refused actually, they were INVITED.

 

[GeneSnider]

The parable that Jesus tells about the 'great dinner'

He says he invited people, but they refused, some were busy with their business other about to get married etc in the parable.
So angry, he invited people that would accept, the blind the crippled, and then went to force people in all he could.

So calvinism would say people were destined to hell, but this parable tell us, that they refused actually, they were INVITED.

So true. What I like about those two sentences is that they move the topic into the secular realm. That jolts them out of their mindset, which sometimes helps.

Regards,
Gene

 

[Joseph G]

Hi all, this is my first post!

I grew up in a Presbyterian church but I attend an Assembly of God church now. So this topic has always fascinated me. I recently boiled my thoughts down to two short questions. When someone denies that we posses Libertarian Free Will, ask them this.

"So you mean that every soldier who ever threw his body on a hand grenade to save his brothers in arms didn't possess Libertarian Free Will? He just had a suicide complex and never knew it?"

If they demand a biblical reference, offer them Romans 5:6-8

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—
8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Since Christ was a man in all ways, these verses apply to a man as well as to Christ.

Regards,
Gene

I settled this debate for myself decades ago.

I don't care how spot-on Calvin was - burning Servitus at the stake prevented any further interest I had in identifying with or devotion to any ism he or anybody else espoused. I don't hold to any theological sect - I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and the only aid I need in successfully walking this walk is His Holy Scripture and other brothers and sisters led in all truth by the same Holy Spirit. All else is an utter waste of energy and focus and only detracts from our commission to go and bear fruit for His Kingdom - no further credentials required.

And... I'm outta here...

God bless us all!

biblegateway.com

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi all, this is my first post!

I grew up in a Presbyterian church but I attend an Assembly of God church now. So this topic has always fascinated me. I recently boiled my thoughts down to two short questions. When someone denies that we posses Libertarian Free Will, ask them this.

"So you mean that every soldier who ever threw his body on a hand grenade to save his brothers in arms didn't possess Libertarian Free Will? He just had a suicide complex and never knew it?"

If they demand a biblical reference, offer them Romans 5:6-8

6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
7 For one will scarcely die for a righteous person—though perhaps for a good person one would dare even to die—
8 but God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Since Christ was a man in all ways, these verses apply to a man as well as to Christ.

Regards,
Gene

Fortunately for all of us, none of us absolutely has to choose or adhere to either Arminius or Calvin. We have other theological choices we can make.

 

[Sel@h]

Fortunately for all of us, none of us absolutely has to choose or adhere to either Arminius or Calvin. We have other theological choices we can make.

Yes, some of us prefer to study the Word of God rather than man. God Himself clearly explains what we need to know about election and predestination.

Selah

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Yes, some of us prefer to study the Word of God rather than man. God Himself clearly explains what we need to know about election and predestination.

Selah

Yes, some of us do prefer to study the Word of God, although I'm not convinced that leaving "man" out of the process of studying the Word of God actually brings the clarity that you vaguely refer to.

Peace.

 

[Sel@h]

Yes, some of us do prefer to study the Word of God, although I'm not convinced that leaving "man" out of the process of studying the Word of God actually brings the clarity that you vaguely refer to.

Peace.

I understand what you’re saying, and there are many good study materials and tools available; but we need to make certain that what we are being told or what we read lines up with what God says in His Word. God bless you, Phil.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I understand what you’re saying, and there are many good study materials and tools available; but we need to make certain that what we are being told or what we read lines up with what God says in His Word. God bless you, Phil.

And how do we make "certain" that what we are being told lines up with what God says in His Word?

 

[Sel@h]

And how do we make "certain" that what we are being told lines up with what God says in His Word?

Ah! Well, I think we need to study the Bible in depth, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. This way, when we hear some man saying things that just don’t line up with what God says, we’ll recognize it real quick.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Ah! Well, I think we need to study the Bible in depth, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. This way, when we hear some man saying things that just don’t line up with what God says, we’ll recognize it real quick.

Surely, studying the Bible in depth, cover to cover, is a good place to start. However, I'm not sure that doing so protects Christians from either having interpretive disagreement among themselves, or even something worse.

To top it off in the context of this thread, reading the Bible cover to cover and studying it in depth won't ameliorate the tension between Arminianism and Calvinism, or with any other "-ism" coming from another denominational sector of the Church.

 

[Sel@h]

Surely, studying the Bible in depth, cover to cover, is a good place to start. However, I'm not sure that doing so protects Christians from either having interpretive disagreement among themselves, or even something worse.

To top it off in the context of this thread, reading the Bible cover to cover and studying it in depth won't ameliorate the tension between Arminianism and Calvinism, or with any other "-ism" coming from another denominational sector of the Church.

maybe so

 

[NBB]

I considered calvinism, tried to understand, the torture on mind was so much, that i just dropped it.

 

[Sel@h]

I considered calvinism, tried to understand, the torture on mind was so much, that i just dropped it.

me too.