janxharris
Veteran
- Jun 10, 2010
- 7,562
- 55
- Country
- United Kingdom
- Gender
- Male
- Faith
- Agnostic
- Marital Status
- Married
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
No. Please explain how this applies to the Amekelites. Or the nephalim. Or the Babylonians.
Non sequitur.
The atonement actually does something. It atones. Crazy, right? So of course it's only for those intended.
Except while others were looking at the illustration aspect, I am not referencing that. I am speaking of the actual event, not the application made off it by Jesus.And I gave scripture about the serpent. What people don't want to accept, though, is when Jesus mentions it in John 3, all He's talking about comparing looking at the cross to looking at the serpent. To make the analogy go farther than Jesus did is a mistake and is only done to prop up a thin theology.
Propitiation means to satisfy wrath. So Christ's death satisfied God's wrath. If it was for the whole world, as synergists suppose,
But he could have said people from the whole world. He did not. And that misses the OT reference.then God wouldn't have any reason to send people to hell. So it makes more sense to understand "whole world" to mean "people from the whole world".
Or Abraham?
Nothing to explain. Please explain why it does not.
Non sequitur.
Since Jesus propitiated for all sin, including any unbelief in Christ - what's to be done?
Your definition is clearly false.
Galatians 3:7-9
Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham. Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: All nations will be blessed through you. So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
Hebrews 11:24-26
By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaohs daughter. He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the fleeting pleasures of sin. He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
Moses 'knew' of Christ.
If He is the propitiation that is not a verb form but a noun, He is the sacrifice that pleases God. In the LXX the various cognates of that form were particularly used of the provision on the mercy seat, not just a generic concept of atonement.
Jesus is the means of atonement, it is speaking of the type of Sacrifice He performed, not the impact on each person, but the type of provision. It was for all the world. It does not say all of the world benefited from that atonement. It is to Christ's glory that His sacrifice was sufficient for all the world, though we both agree not all the world will be saved.
The term is referencing the OT type, and its fulfillment. He is the atonement provided for all, just as the rites on the Day of Atonement were for all. However, if someone decided to not participate, they didn't benefit.
Except while others were looking at the illustration aspect, I am not referencing that. I am speaking of the actual event, not the application made off it by Jesus.
You said every Israelite looked and was saved from the serpents. It involved repentance. they had to look in faith to the serpent to be healed. And you said that they all did so opposed to just some of them.
How is that possible if you indicated to me before that natural man cannot repent. All of them managed to. How?
He came so that the nephalim might believe? There is something to explain. Otherwise you wouldn't have tried to shift the burden.
He came for mankind.
John 3:6-7
There was a man sent from God whose name was John (the Baptist). He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe.
Should we question the integrity of John's words?
Now you are changing again. If He is the propitiation for all, then why does God's wrath abide in those in hell? Why are they in hell to begin with?
I guess I need to remind you of what you said.
Please note your emphasis of "all".
How did John's coming as a witness benefit the nephalim?
And how is it that Jesus is Savior to to all, but especially those who believe?
I certainly am not a universalist, so I don't think Paul meant that He saves everyone. It's a pretty detailed answer, and there are much clearer passages to look to.
And?
If you are just going to change the definition of propitiation to sacrifice, there's not much to discuss. You've proven that you aren't concerned with what scripture says, but propping up your own tradition.
Tall73 said:So you admit these people who were lost disregarded Jesus' blood? But if they were lost, according to you, it was not for them anyway? So how could they spurn grace or Jesus' blood?
The answer is because it was for them as well.
Seriously? That's what you came away with? The blood is for lost people.
Why not read the answer I gave and respond to it.i never said anything about lost. I was talking about Jews. Jews who reject Jesus reject His blood.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?