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For the sake of this discussion, we would be interested in all of the above.Really... if you want verses that could be troublesome, just ask. I'll try to remember the 2-3 that bothered me as a Calvinist.
I can, however, tell you of the 30+ that bothered me when I was an Arminian.
The devil is a liar..So false prophets can steal, kill, and destroy God's sheep?
I didn't know you believed this.This is his main ministry is to deceive..That is why we see the scriptures as being truth. This is why we see Jesus using scripture to defeat His lies and deception. He comes to steal the word out of the hearts of men.
That seems to be an evasion.
Tell how you can justify Calvinism given this crystal clear words of scripture.
I notice that you didn't even make the attempt.
I'll add some questions to focus your thinking:
All these exhortations, including our prayers for the saints, are evidence that perseverence is necessary(our perseverence, not God's) and that our salvation is impacted by our steadfast work in serving God's will.
Seriously guy, if you really care to find my answers to these, they are pretty easy to find. Click my name and search through my posts. It will take you far less time to find a variety of posts on the subject than it would take me to type up answers all over again to the same issues.
Clearly, you aren't confident in your positions.
If I can take the time to post a response, so can you.
I made a case for my position. If you can do the same, you will.
The devil is a liar..This is his main ministry is to deceive..That is why we see the scriptures as being truth. This is why we see Jesus using scripture to defeat His lies and deception. He comes to steal the word out of the hearts of men.
You keep changing your story. I have no idea what your point is.
That is why he created Calvinism.The devil is a liar..This is his main ministry is to deceive..That is why we see the scriptures as being truth. This is why we see Jesus using scripture to defeat His lies and deception. He comes to steal the word out of the hearts of men.
Seriously guy, if you really care to find my answers to these, they are pretty easy to find. Click my name and search through my posts. It will take you far less time to find a variety of posts on the subject than it would take me to type up answers all over again to the same issues.
You may call it evasion, and I'm OK with that; I don't really care. I quit thinking that arguing with someone on the internet ever does any ounce of good, because my experience shows that every minute I spend typing up a response is usually infinitely better spent doing anything else. I respond to messages in hopes that people might be blessed or see truth, or see a new truth. I cannot convince someone who is merely here to prove how right he is.
I cannot judge your attitudes or intentions, but your words can only lead me to believe that you are trying to trap me. Your intentions, therefore, are neither righteous nor good. My intention is only to assure you that Calvinism is a God-glorifying recognition of God's truth, as far as I know and have studied the Bible. If you don't believe that, that's OK; some people take years to come to this knowledge and the ability to give up mankind's grip on free will and self-exaltation. It took me years, so I will give the same courtesy to anyone and everyone else.
But I cannot force you to see anything you do not want to see.
EDIT: And, I intend no offense when I say this, you would be extremely haughty to even imagine that you are even one of the first 20 people to bring these issues up; in fact, you are one of literally hundreds of people I have debated and discussed this issue with. It would be nothing short of prideful to think that you have somehow "trapped me" and that my argument would fall to pieces so easily. Please have some respect.
Clearly, you aren't confident in your positions.
If I can take the time to post a response, so can you.
I made a case for my position. If you can do the same, you will.
I have... countless times... with pages of text. Literally.
Never once did I feel that it was worth the time and effort.
Like I said... are you really interested? It shouldn't be hard to find my posts. Use search.
EDIT: Also, please don't assume my level of confidence. Additionally, although my picture makes me look terribly young, I'm married and work full-time as a teacher. I spend hours day upon day with children and have learned that the more I try to force someone to believe something is wrong, the more they just end up hating me. That also means that although I may have the time to type up a response, I'd much rather choose to do something that's remotely worth my while.
That is why he created Calvinism.
Ezek, that is just absolutely inappropriate. To say to another believer who shares a very commonly held view that has been maintained through centuries that it is "a lie from the devil" that is used to steal Christians away from the faith is demonizing your brothers and sisters.
Please don't demonize people or their belief systems. It's incredibly rude and inconsiderate.
Well I would say that the scriptures show who chooses who and why and that scripture also speaks of predestination and not chance.That is why he created Calvinism.Through the scriptures we see God has a plan and that what He has said this he will also do. And that He alone is God. I do not see God as one that is a God of chance do you?
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