Arminian Apologists

[Jon_]

Calvinism is not a denomination.

Quite correct. Calvinism is not a denomination, it is the Gospel. It is the proper theology of the Word of God.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[A. believer]

(Rom. 10:17 KJV) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.


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Yes, I am.

So then you're talking about after you've shown the skeptic his lack of rational justification for his skepticism when he still says he can't believe, right? Once you've addressed and exposed all his objections, I don't think there's really anything else you can say. But don't assume that, just because the person isn't persuaded, that your words necessarily will not remain with him and contribute to his persuasion at some future time.

 

[JJB]

I'm just curious as to why you'd expect universalists to attend an Eastern Orthodox church? Since when is Eastern Orthodoxy universalist?

Maybe I am assuming too much, but an EO friend of mine is a universalist hence my assumption.

 

[Jon_]

So then you're talking about after you've shown the skeptic his lack of rational justification for his skepticism when he still says he can't believe, right?

To the extend that is provable, of course. The primary presupposition is the truth of God's Word. If they refuse that then they have no faith (which comes by hearing [the Word of God]).

Once you've addressed and exposed all his objections,

As pertains to doctrine and God's justification for his plan and such as that, yes.

I don't think there's really anything else you can say. But don't assume that, just because the person isn't persuaded, that your words necessarily will not remain with him and contribute to his persuasion at some future time.

Yeah, I would never assume anything with regards to anyone else's soul. Believe me, I am in no way looking for a place to throw in the towel, but I also realize that at some point further preaching does more harm that good. For instance, if I am testifying to my friends I don't want to alienate or anger them by hounding them about something they obviously haven't been enabled to receive (yet?).

So, I suppose in a round-about way that totally answered my question. All I can do is share the Gospel to the extent that I am able and to answer as many questions as I am able. Since it is God who works through us to do righteousness, I shouldn't worry so much about my role in witness, just that I would be an open and willing vessel for God's work unto his glory. That's all that really matters: His glory.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[Jon_]

Maybe I am assuming too much, but an EO friend of mine is a universalist hence my assumption.

Interesting. Your friend may attend an EO church, but his or her doctrine is very unOrthodox. Universalism stands in violation of the Nicene creed, which is the cornerstone of Orthodox Christianity, especially Orthodoxy.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[B®ent]

I always like using the analogy of a man about to jump off a bridge. Do you save him, or do you just talk to him about it? What is the Christian thing to do? I've backed many an Arminian into corners doing this.

God RESCUES us! If it we're for that, nobody would be saved at all.

Jo

Has anyone ever visited General Apologetics and seen Arminians try to prosletyze? It's sad. They try to force this love requires free will lie and not even the unbelievers buy it! That's just sad when atheists, agnostics, and otherwise know more about determination than born-again believers. Shoot, most unbelievers will readily admit that we do not have "free will," that it is only an illusion of our human perception.

Moreover, you ought to see them get slaughtered when posed with questions like, "I want to believe in God, but I can't. Why not?" Any answer that follows that does not fit the form "it's not your choice" is simply not true. There are two different Gospels in the church today, that much is for sure.

I just realized that this post seems pretty polemic, but I should clarify that I am focused on doctrinal errors and not the well-natured spirit of those people trying to spread the good news.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[JJB]

Your friend may attend an EO church, but his or her doctrine is very unOrthodox. Universalism stands in violation of the Nicene creed, which is the cornerstone of Orthodox Christianity, especially Orthodoxy.

It is amazing what I am learning by being online......... another new thing: just because someone belongs to a certain church does not mean they subscribe to the belief systems held by that church! Which just boggles my mind -- why would you place your name on the roll if you disagree with the beliefs of that church? What is the verse about let your yes be yes and your no be no?

shocked and dismayed,
JJB

 

[Jon_]

It is amazing what I am learning by being online......... another new thing: just because someone belongs to a certain church does not mean they subscribe to the belief systems held by that church! Which just boggles my mind -- why would you place your name on the roll if you disagree with the beliefs of that church? What is the verse about let your yes be yes and your no be no?

shocked and dismayed,
JJB

(Matt. 5:37 KJV) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
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Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[JJB]

(Matt. 5:37 KJV) But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.



Thank you.
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[A. believer]

To the extend that is provable, of course. The primary presupposition is the truth of God's Word. If they refuse that then they have no faith (which comes by hearing [the Word of God]).

If they refuse to submit to the Word of God, then, indeed, they have no faith, but one can use a presuppositional apologetic to prove through, as Greg Bahnsen calls it, "the impossibility of the contrary," that whatever worldview they hold to, contrary to the Biblical one, is not rationally justifiable. The worldview that recognizes the triune God as the foundation of all reality is the only one that can consistently and rationally account for any knowledge at all. Apart from the Holy Spirit, people will still reject God even when this is demonstrated, but they can't reject God and make any reasonable claim to rationality at the same time.

God bless!

 

[Jon_]

If they refuse to submit to the Word of God, then, indeed, they have no faith, but one can use a presuppositional apologetic to prove through, as Greg Bahnsen calls it, "the impossibility of the contrary," that whatever worldview they hold to, contrary to the Biblical one, is not rationally justifiable. The worldview that recognizes the triune God as the foundation of all reality is the only one that can consistently and rationally account for any knowledge at all. Apart from the Holy Spirit, people will still reject God even when this is demonstrated, but they can't reject God and make any reasonable claim to rationality at the same time.

God bless!

Right, proving the existence of a supreme Creator is relatively easy, philosophically (at least, I think it is). What is more difficult is getting them to bridge the gap between there being a god, and there being God. You can get most skeptics to admit there is a God, but then you get all kinds of stuff like, "but he's not the one that you're talking about!" despite evidence to the contrary. That's the point at which the flat dismissal of the Bible qualifies their lack of faith. Despite defeating their worldview, they still hold to an imgination.

If it weren't so tragic, it would be funny.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[A. believer]

Right, proving the existence of a supreme Creator is relatively easy, philosophically (at least, I think it is). What is more difficult is getting them to bridge the gap between there being a god, and there being God. You can get most skeptics to admit there is a God, but then you get all kinds of stuff like, "but he's not the one that you're talking about!" despite evidence to the contrary. That's the point at which the flat dismissal of the Bible qualifies their lack of faith. Despite defeating their worldview, they still hold to an imgination.

If it weren't so tragic, it would be funny.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

I believe that Van Til/Bahnsen apologetic successfully proves not only bare theism but the truth of the triune God of Christianity.