Armageddon

[durangodawood]

The heat is always this bad every August, lived here all my life and it has always been this hot. Fires always break out this time of year it is nothing new. Don't look for something that doesn't exist

Massive dry lightning storm in coastal CA in summer. That is pretty new.

Plus, I'm pretty sure average heat has bumped up there compared to the 20 years when I lived there.

 

[Tanj]

Poor hygiene conditions

You honestly think that's unique to Chinese wet markets? When you get the chance after the pandemic, see if you can't get a bit of travel under your belt. Have a look at what the world is actually like.

serving food that's not fit for human consumption

Wow, who sets that bar? Who elected Rob the arbiter of what constitutes food? That's a seriously colonialist attitude, right there.

A number of different countries have wet markets, and don't have the same issues that this particular region in China regularly has.

Nonsense, they just don't get reported on.

There have been multiple regional outbreaks from them that we don't hear about in the news (though you can search and find them)

So I get to do your work for you? Pass. Tell you what though, for each wet market disease outbreak you find I'll match it with a food poisoning outbreak from a western outlet in a western country.

Why 'Wet Markets' Persisted In China Despite Disease And Hygiene Concerns

The only mention of disease and hygiene in that article is in the title.

NPR has actually done several articles about it ever since SARS was linked to one of them.

Yeah, "linked".

 

[ThatRobGuy]

You honestly think that's unique to Chinese wet markets? When you get the chance after the pandemic, see if you can't get a bit of travel under your belt. Have a look at what the world is actually like.

Yes...unless you can find an example of a global-level pandemic that's emerged from one of the wet markets in Thailand, India, Pakistan, Sudan, Cambodia...or any other country where they exist.

Wow, who sets that bar? Who elected Rob the arbiter of what constitutes food? That's a seriously colonialist attitude, right there.

The scientists do...trust the science, remember? That goes both ways. If you're going to tell people to "trust the science" when it comes to social distancing, masking, etc... (which, for the record, we should, we're in agreement on that), then you have to also trust the experts when they say that eating hedgehogs, peacocks, dogs, wild rabbits, bats, and snakes, that were butchered in unclean conditions, and sitting out in the sun for 2 hours prior to consumption are major risk factor for transmission of zoonotic disease.

Nonsense, they just don't get reported on.

Ah, so there was some global pandemic equivalent to covid-19 or SARS that came from another countries' wet markets, but we just never heard of it. Is that the story you're going with?

So I get to do your work for you? Pass. Tell you what though, for each wet market disease outbreak you find I'll match it with a food poisoning outbreak from a western outlet in a western country.

Food poisoning outbreaks aren't transmissible in the same way as SARS or Covid. Only the ones that are bacterial are mildly contagious, and being that there have been probably millions of people who've gotten food poisoning in my lifetime, but this is the only global pandemic I've been alive for in my 37 years, I'm guessing the two aren't comparable.

The only mention of disease and hygiene in that article is in the title.

Then they go into detail in the article.


But, if you need some more articles:
Why They're Called 'Wet Markets' — And What Health Risks They Might Pose

U.S. Pressures China To Close Wet Markets Thought To Be Source Of COVID-19

Why Wet Markets Are The Perfect Place To Spread Disease

Seems like you're taking a bit of a hostile tone.

Is it because you really disagree with me on this topic that much? Or is it because we've disagreed on topics in the past and my dislike of Trump is only at a 6 where yours is at a 9 or 10, so you feel compelled to have a visceral reaction to my posts?

 

[Yttrium]

The temperature at my place will be under 70 for the next three days. No riots, and COVID-19 is under control here.

On the other hand, with armageddon in mind, we are on the watch for murder hornets.

 

[Tanj]

Yes...unless you can find an example of a global-level pandemic that's emerged from one of the wet markets in Thailand, India, Pakistan, Sudan, Cambodia...or any other country where they exist.

I can't find an example of one that came from a Chinese one either. I mean you get that right? That there's not conclusive evidence the virus originated from a wet market.

Meanwhile, I can find a virus that emerged from a Mexican Pig farm.. Let's shut all the pig farms down.

The scientists do...trust the science, remember? That goes both ways. If you're going to tell people to "trust the science" when it comes to social distancing, masking, etc... (which, for the record, we should, we're in agreement on that), then you have to also trust the experts when they say that eating hedgehogs, peacocks, dogs, wild rabbits, bats, and snakes, that were butchered in unclean conditions, and sitting out in the sun for 2 hours prior to consumption are major risk factor for transmission of zoonotic disease.

Evidence please. For the record, 2 hours in the sun would do wonders for bacteria. It will kill viruses off.

Seems like you're taking a bit of a hostile tone.

Well, sorry about that. It's my normal tone on this board, but yes, I can see how it comes off hostile.

Is it because you really disagree with me on this topic that much?

I have issues with The American Hegemony stepping into a system that has existed for 5000 years and so far been involved in maybe one outbreak during the entirety of human history, and declaring it should all be shut down.

Or is it because we've disagreed on topics in the past and my dislike of Trump is only at a 6 where yours is at a 9 or 10, so you feel compelled to have a visceral reaction to my posts?

Yeah....no.

 

[mala]

are the initial posts in this thread supposed to be a joke or are they serious?

 

[Kalevalatar]

Armageddon was over here in 1694-1743. The Little Ice Age and the super winter of 1694-95, the brutal foreign wars, a brutal foreign occupation, slavery, press-gangs, mass rape, plundering, ransacked and burnt churches, systematic scorched-eath, famine, and a plague that killed two-thirds of the inhabitants in the capital alone. Famine and disease killed 25-30% of the population, 20% of men were killed in action and the same number of civilians were slaughtered in mindless violence or sold to slavery never to be heard again. Large parts of the country became uninhabited and it's a miracle that anyone survived.

Extreme weather in CA and elsewhere in the United States doesn't sound like Armageddon and is still reversible with smart, forward-thinking, pro-future policies. There was very little the poor 18th C civilians could do to reverse their destiny. There is a whole lot the voters in the United States can do to change theirs instead of blaming God.

 

[TriciaR]

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[ThatRobGuy]

I can't find an example of one that came from a Chinese one either. I mean you get that right? That there's not conclusive evidence the virus originated from a wet market.

Meanwhile, I can find a virus that emerged from a Mexican Pig farm.. Let's shut all the pig farms down.

There's no conclusive evidence for Covid, but there was pretty solid evidence for SARS. And there's still quite a bit of information and evidence that leans strongly toward Covid originating in one as well. Even the scientists who feel there isn't enough evidence to trace it back to a particular wet market, still acknowledge that it's still zoonotic and nature, and could've also come from improper livestock regulation & testing at a more traditional meat plant.

In either case, the Chinese government isn't off the hook on this one.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14738798/

The H5N1 avian flu, SARS, and COVID-19 outbreaks can be traced to keeping live animals in wet markets where the potential for zoonotic transmission is greatly increased.[47][48][42] In April 2020, scientist Peter Daszak described a Chinese wet market as follows: "it is a bit of shock to go to a wildlife market and see this huge diversity of animals live in cages on top of each other with a pile of guts that have been pulled out of an animal and thrown on the floor [...] These are perfect places for viruses to spread."[49] In a 2007 study, Chinese scientists identified the presence of SARS-CoV-like viruses in horseshoe bats combined with unsanitary wildlife markets and the culture of eating exotic mammals in southern China as a "time-bomb".[50] A 2018 study in Malaysia concluded that wet market workers were at greater risk for leptospirosis infections.[51]

Chinese environmentalists, researchers and state media have called for stricter regulation of exotic animal trade in the markets.[52] Medical experts Zhong Nanshan, Guan Yi and Yuen Kwok-yung have also called for the closure of wildlife markets since 2010.[53]

Epidemiologic Clues to SARS Origin in China


Meanwhile, to your second part, we do shut down compromised food sources and immediately implement new testing standards and regulations when food sources have been compromised. It's the reason why, when there's a "breach", massive recalls hit the airwaves letting everyone know to throw out certain food items. It's the reason why there was such a long-standing requirement for restaurants to overcook pork, and we completely stopped importing pork from specific countries in response to that. UK took big actions to address Mad Cow disease when that occurred and are now very diligent about testing and what they'll feed the livestock.

Nobody is suggesting that there has to be a global shutdown of all wet markets, they're calling for reforms. This is especially true for countries like China that have a history of sweeping things under the rug.


Nobody is saying "globally shut down all wet markets". They're asking for pressure to be put on the Chinese government to implement better practices. As a few of the links noted, even though safer options are available, and refrigeration is available, it's more of a Chinese cultural practice to eat exotic animals that are being kept and butchered in that environment. That's a problem.

 

[TriciaR]

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[ewq1938]