Arguments for and against masturbation

Spiritlight said:

I pray the lord today judges me more kindly than you did.

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Peace

Did I really Judge? Or point out what bible also teaches.
Fairly? Sin is sin to God. My sin and your sin= sin. And I was not being nasty by saying yous were joking, just sad that Christians cannot feel someone struggle and pain, but are Joking.

Peace.

HCrossth2012 said:

Peace

If I have log, you must be fully blind. Because you totally missed my point, as usual word games with christians.. that seem to be the only thing they are interested in Jesus, not interested, just to out smart another person with their " own" knowledge...I will be the fool for Christ then............


God bless you

Peace

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My mistake. I thought you were Christian.
You should watch what you say and how you say it. Because everything you just posted )above( indicates you are not speaking as a Christian.

I'll let you figure out how that is so given the vocabulary you employ.

HCrossth2012 said:

Peace

Would Christ make jokes of someone's Sin? Or struggles? Not the Christ I know.
This is why Its hard to believe christians, from same mouth they praise and same mouth say things like this.

God bless

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Jesus made a pun about the hypocricy of the pharasees. gnat and camal are similar sounding words in Greek. You know strain at a gnat but swallow a camel.

Puns and Wordplay in the Bible - YouTube

Oh, well done.

Caesars Ghost said:

My mistake. I thought you were Christian.
You should watch what you say and how you say it. Because everything you just posted )above( indicates you are not speaking as a Christian.

I'll let you figure out how that is so given the vocabulary you employ.

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Peace

I am not Christian? " Bahahaha" says it all to me.

And I would not want to be because apparently anyone can be christian, If you even look at this forum, atheist,agnostics, satan worshippers all under same Christian Forum .....so yes. you are christian but I am follower of Jesus Christ.
Funny as, you call me none christian while joking of someone else struggles and sin. Now I have seen it all.

Peace to you.

HCrossth2012 said:

Peace

Did I really Judge? Or point out what bible also teaches.
Fairly? Sin is sin to God. My sin and your sin= sin. And I was not being nasty by saying yous were joking, just sad that Christians cannot feel someone struggle and pain, but are Joking.

Peace.

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God will sort me out you dont have to do it.

Sometimes making someone smile is a blessing as well. You shouldn't think for us what we are thinking for others. I do feel for anyone going through this and it can bea complex and frustrating guilt ridden issue.

Often these threads get heated and people argue. I was lightening it up at my expense trying to get a grin out of you guys.

2ducklow said:

Jesus made a pun about the hypocricy of the pharasees. gnat and camal are similar sounding words in Greek. You know strain at a gnat but swallow a camel.

Puns and Wordplay in the Bible - YouTube

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Peace to you
what ever is written in holy Bible, Amen. What they were talking " joking" about was not Christ like. I don't care if it was to make you smile what ever reason.
Some people post here to open up. And some see it as joke.

So that all I was saying.

Peace

HCrossth2012 said:

Peace

I am not Christian? " Bahahaha" says it all to me.

And I would not want to be because apparently anyone can be christian, If you even look at this forum, atheist,agnostics, satan worshippers all under same Christian Forum .....so yes. you are christian but I am follower of Jesus Christ.
Funny as, you call me none christian while joking of someone else struggles and sin. Now I have seen it all.

Peace to you.

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Clearly you haven't seen your own words in your own post!

And do keep judging. But deny you are. It's typical of how you've comported yourself thus far.

Why am I even in this shut the front door thread!? I don't care what you think of me. Meanwhile, your condemnation of this forum for being open to atheists, agnostics, Satanists, etc... makes for the observation; you're known by the company you keep. So if you don't like that those groups are welcome here, you should exit and preserve your own sense of self-righteousness per your self-appointment that you are better than that.
Right?

This is my last post in this ridiculous thread. But do continue to prove your own example of "christ like".
Or is that POE styled?!

I wonder if heated debates can ever produce good fruit? I suppose so. Depends on the individual.

Forge3 said:

I wonder if heated debates can ever produce good fruit? I suppose so. Depends on the individual.

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For me the good that I see coming out of debates is that it causes me to research bible topics. also it's a good place to practice being calm when others are hot mad. That was the adult me. the child me enjoys watching people fly off the handle. Maybe by the time I reach 70 Ill be completely adult. What benifit it has on others I couldn't say.

Peace!
to put the thread back on its rail...

People were designed to be able to pleasure themselves, but...


those who receive him to themselves with ignorance, the pleasures which are defiled prevail over them. It is those people who used to say; "God created members for our use, for us to grow in defilement, in order that we might enjoy ourselves." And they cause God to participate with them in deeds of this sort; and they are not steadfast upon the earth. Nor will they in Heaven.
(the testimony of Truth)

This quote of this text I agree with. The god that lets us be selfish is not God, the Most High.

A Jewish gnostic text called the Apocalypse Adam gives an account to god masterbating.

The tenth kingdom says of him that his god loved a cloud of desire. He begot him in his hand and cast upon the cloud above him some of the drop, and he was born(*)...

"Yaldabaoth is the first ruler, who took great power from his Mother. Then he left her and moved away from the realms where he was born. He was strong, and created for himself other realms by means of a bright flame of fire that still exists. He mated with the Mindlessness that is in him, and produced his own Authorities."
(Apocryphon of John)

The underlined; or "amazed in his mindlessness", aponoia (Greek) suggest that he masterbated.

The difference of choices between singles an couples is just one choice.

Man isn't the problem, it's the force that is for the flesh that's the problem...

:this was posted in a similar thread here in UT a little awhile ago.

Grace through my Lord Christ,
Erik.

2ducklow said:

For me the good that I see coming out of debates is that it causes me to research bible topics. also it's a good place to practice being calm when others are hot mad. What benifit it has on others I couldn't say.

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That is how it worked for me too. I used to post a lot in a religious/politics section on another forum and I dug deep into scripture for the debates. Also I don't think I ever lost my cool and that was part of my witnessing

I tried debating with other people before. But Jesus grabbed me by the ear literally. So, I don't recommend it. I know some people don't believe as real Jesus can be. He does have His is ways of disciplining His children. Who are His disciples.

Today, I'm still happy and blessed to know I am a child of God. I'm just now more clingy then I was before with Christ. Because, I want to be more upright with Him.

I came here to know more about the wrongs of the flesh. And find out what Christ was trying to teach me. But as usual the thread turned into a warfare of stone throwing. lol

lnname said:

I started this because I wanted to be free of sexual sins in my life. I've thought for long time that masturbation wasn't a sin, but like most christians I've never mentioned it at church.

As a result, before this forum I had no idea whether there were any solid arguments against my position, and if there were I wanted to engage with them. I don't think it matters which side persuades me, so long as I learn the truth. I can't walk away from debate in an area of this level of importance in my life without first trying to find truth, because anything less than truth wouldn't be enough.

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I was told that pursuing purity was some form of legalism, I know what its like to be completely in bondage to sexual sins, and now what its like to be completely free, freedom is not being under legalism, freedom is nolonger even thinking about doing it, being under the law and trying to live under the law is not freedom, at least its not the freedom that Jesus Christ offers.

you absolutely can be free if you decide you are free, thats part of the lie, Its what gives the enemy so much control, that is believing that you can't escape, can't stop, can't get free.........


but it all starts with your mind, if you control your thoughts, rebuking every sinful lustful thought, not allowing them to pass over the threshold, you will be amazed that in a short period of time your strength to resist your flesh will overcome the strength of sinful desires.

as time goes on, this whole masturbation bondage will be but a memory, and you will look back wondering how it had so much power over you

Its a lie from the pit of hell, rebuke the thoughts and you will be an overcomer

Caesars Ghost said:

I recall Jesus when he challenged the men who were intent on stoning the Magdalene. Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.

Don't worry about the splinter in another posters eye when you should concern yourself with the potential log that can be found in your own.

Proverbs 26:18-19 Like a madman who throws firebrands, arrows, and death is the man who deceives his neighbor and says, “I am only joking!”

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Jesus told her to sin no more

once you remove the log from your own eye your better equiped to help your brother remove the speck from his

Proverbs 28:13 He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy

eachallberg said:

Peace!
to put the thread back on its rail...

People were designed to be able to pleasure themselves, but...


those who receive him to themselves with ignorance, the pleasures which are defiled prevail over them. It is those people who used to say; "God created members for our use, for us to grow in defilement, in order that we might enjoy ourselves." And they cause God to participate with them in deeds of this sort; and they are not steadfast upon the earth. Nor will they in Heaven.
(the testimony of Truth)

This quote of this text I agree with. The god that lets us be selfish is not God, the Most High.

A Jewish gnostic text called the Apocalypse Adam gives an account to god masterbating.

The tenth kingdom says of him that his god loved a cloud of desire. He begot him in his hand and cast upon the cloud above him some of the drop, and he was born(*)...

"Yaldabaoth is the first ruler, who took great power from his Mother. Then he left her and moved away from the realms where he was born. He was strong, and created for himself other realms by means of a bright flame of fire that still exists. He mated with the Mindlessness that is in him, and produced his own Authorities."
(Apocryphon of John)

The underlined; or "amazed in his mindlessness", aponoia (Greek) suggest that he masterbated.

The difference of choices between singles an couples is just one choice.

Man isn't the problem, it's the force that is for the flesh that's the problem...

:this was posted in a similar thread here in UT a little awhile ago.

Grace through my Lord Christ,
Erik.

Click to expand...

I think anything considering yalda is usually written with the harshest or most derogatory language possible. I believe his birth is sometimes written of as an "abortion" or, if I'm not mistaken, that he is the bastard offspring of Sophia.

I think it makes perfect sense that he must "touch" to produce his own emanations, b/c obviously he has no one with whom to create. Sophia's act of creation is cursed b/c She attempts to create without Love/Christ, and therefore her act of creation produces an "abortion."

The emanations of yalda are, as they must be, an inverted mirror image of Heaven, so of course all his emanations are inherently defiled, no matter how he produced them, so I think it makes sense that he must "touch" to create them. While the Monad's emanations spring forth from His mind, it makes perfect sense that yalda's emanations must be produced in a way that will be looked down on.

I think it would also make sense for yalda's emanations to be excreted in some way, however I think his act of masturbating speaks to the fact that perfect creation must be the product of the perfect union between wisdom and love, while blindness only has other blindness to produce more evil and chaos with.

However, just b/c the language used to describe yalada is sexualized I would still think it is somewhat of a stretch to say this is a specific indictment of masturbating specifically b/c he simply can not create with anyone but himself. Plus his act of creation is not defiled by attempting to create without Christ, as Sophia's was, since he was never meant to exist to begin with. It has to be something laughable, and in this context what is more embarrassing than a child produced not with love, but by masturbating?

Also I don't think the specifics of this story are necessarily what is important, and that we should look beyond the details b/c I honestly don't think a literal reading of our creation myth will produce the most useful teachings.

However, I think I would agree the larger problem is more about our condition and the corruption of the physical world. If man was created perfectly than we would not be sexually aroused until we were married. Obviously this isn't the case.

.............

true2theword said:

I was told that pursuing purity was some form of legalism, I know what its like to be completely in bondage to sexual sins, and now what its like to be completely free, freedom is not being under legalism, freedom is nolonger even thinking about doing it, being under the law and trying to live under the law is not freedom, at least its not the freedom that Jesus Christ offers.

you absolutely can be free if you decide you are free, thats part of the lie, Its what gives the enemy so much control, that is believing that you can't escape, can't stop, can't get free.........


but it all starts with your mind, if you control your thoughts, rebuking every sinful lustful thought, not allowing them to pass over the threshold, you will be amazed that in a short period of time your strength to resist your flesh will overcome the strength of sinful desires.

as time goes on, this whole masturbation bondage will be but a memory, and you will look back wondering how it had so much power over you

Its a lie from the pit of hell, rebuke the thoughts and you will be an overcomer

Click to expand...

No, I was trying to tell you not to go around and bully people about regulations. Because, you have mastered self control. A true Christian, would show peace, joy and love for the follow Christian family member. Galatians tells you what real freedom is.


<< Galatians 5 >>
New International Version 1984

Freedom in Christ

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.

2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9“A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful naturea; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”b 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Yes, I do agree. Masturbation is a sin. If you look into:

&#9668; Colossians 3:5 &#9658;

New International Version (©1984)
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry.
New Living Translation (©2007)

So put to death the sinful, earthly things lurking within you. Have nothing to do with sexual immorality, impurity, lust, and evil desires. Don't be greedy, for a greedy person is an idolater, worshiping the things of this world.

And, in Revelation 2. It states that Sexual vice is bad. God, does not like, anyone who does sin with sexual vice. Which is sexual bad habits. There was a prophetess who was in trouble with God in the bible. Because of her ways. She did fornication, and adultery. Very bad.

I'm sorry, I was very wrong to say it was right. I need to be more careful, and read more of the bible. I didn't see this as clearly as much as I should have.

Bad habits of sexual nature. Leads to sexual abuse, and spiritual, and soulfully dead. It leaves a person worthless, and broken. And they live an unhappy life. Because, they have been mistreated. And it creates an unclean spirit, and it grieves the Holy Spirit.

I learned this the hard way. I'm very sorry. It's very wrong. Please forgive me.

its undeniably a form of sex, probably closer to homosexuality then people think, its really having sex with yourself, if your male your fondling a male sex organ to the point of [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], might as well have your buddy do it to you, or you do it to your buddy........maybe thats where homosexuality starts, people like masturbating themselves so much they opt to do their friends