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so you cannot prove that the universe isn't subject to both mass and time. You specifically made a statement that time does not apply to the universe, but you cannot prove that with astronomy or physics. So, I guess at this point our conversation is done, unless you can add more sources to your argument. Again thanks for the conversation.The universe isn’t inside or outside of anything. It is not subject to anything. Only the things inside it are subject to rules. When you ask questions and then try to answer them for me, it shows that you’re really not here to learn anything because you think you already know the answer when in fact you’re wrong, and that is the height of arrogance. Your continued attempts to argue that because things inside the universe are subject to time, the universe itself must be subject to time, is the fallacy of composition. I have repeated myself far more times than I care to now. To learn more about the fallacy of composition, please visit Fallacy of Composition
And again, my viewpoint doesn’t have to explain anything. I don’t claim to have all the answers. Just because I don’t know something doesn’t mean God is the answer. It is not evidence of God to say “well what else could it be?” That is argument from ignorance. To learn more about the argument from ignorance, please visit Argument from Ignorance
We can be done if you like, but I did logically prove that the universe wasn’t subject to time. If you’re having trouble understanding how I did that, you can ask me anything, but don’t pretend it never happened. That’s dishonest, and I’d hate to think you weren’t arguing in good faith.so you cannot prove that the universe isn't subject to both mass and time. You specifically made a statement that time does not apply to the universe, but you cannot prove that with astronomy or physics. So, I guess at this point our conversation is done, unless you can add more sources to your argument. Again thanks for the conversation.
The universe doesn’t owe you a reason for existence. It seems you have difficulty with the concept of something existing without origin, and that would be understandable if you didn’t turn around and insist that God exists without origin. Yes, you say that being without origin is part of God’s definition, but I can just as easily say that about the universe. It doesn’t prove anything. So in conclusion you have failed to demonstrate the existence of God.in conclusion there is no reason why anything exists, no purpose for the atheist's viewpoint here. This is a very weak stance. What would be the purpose of some multiverse creating another universe that we live in? There is no reason. No motive. And it begs the question as to the origin of the multiverse. Where did it come from? Until some of these questions are answered I feel we have exhausted this debate. Thank you for everyone involved.
Thank you for providing me a thread to show people how illogical some apologists can be...in conclusion there is no reason why anything exists, no purpose for the atheist's viewpoint here. This is a very weak stance. What would be the purpose of some multiverse creating another universe that we live in? There is no reason. No motive. And it begs the question as to the origin of the multiverse. Where did it come from? Until some of these questions are answered I feel we have exhausted this debate. Thank you for everyone involved.
our universe consists of three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Space time fuses the four dimensions together. Space time, and time exist throughout the universe, and only becomes stiffer near black holes. So go ahead and post the number of the post where you proved that the universe is not subject to time. The only way to say the universe is not subject to time is to know the composition of the multiverse that created our universe. And prove there is no mass or time there. If you can't prove that, I presume we are done here. Again, having no motive for making itself, the universe is without cause and reason. IF God exists, it proves motive and how it happened. So my theory is the more logical, and your theory presented is unfounded and unprovable.We can be done if you like, but I did logically prove that the universe wasn’t subject to time. If you’re having trouble understanding how I did that, you can ask me anything, but don’t pretend it never happened. That’s dishonest, and I’d hate to think you weren’t arguing in good faith.
The universe doesn’t owe you a reason for existence. It seems you have difficulty with the concept of something existing without origin, and that would be understandable if you didn’t turn around and insist that God exists without origin. Yes, you say that being without origin is part of God’s definition, but I can just as easily say that about the universe. It doesn’t prove anything. So in conclusion you have failed to demonstrate the existence of God.
Post 157. I said you could ask me questions if you didn’t understand, but instead of trying to understand you continue to make the same logical errors. I can’t help you if you don’t wish to actually understand. On top of that, you don’t prove God exists by arguing how unintuitive the alternative is. You still have to demonstrate God exists, which you haven’t, and I suspect you can’t.our universe consists of three dimensions of space and one dimension of time. Space time fuses the four dimensions together. Space time, and time exist throughout the universe, and only becomes stiffer near black holes. So go ahead and post the number of the post where you proved that the universe is not subject to time. The only way to say the universe is not subject to time is to know the composition of the multiverse that created our universe. And prove there is no mass or time there. If you can't prove that, I presume we are done here. Again, having no motive for making itself, the universe is without cause and reason. IF God exists, it proves motive and how it happened. So my theory is the more logical, and your theory presented is unfounded and unprovable.
so I read your post, can you please quote just the portion where you prove that the multiverse does not have the fourth dimension? Time? As I have said, space time exists in all of space and matter. There is no valid reason for assuming the multiverse is not in time. You assume so because you have to believe the multiverse had no beginning. But you know, honestly, deep down...that it did. What you are saying is that you believe something that is unknown scientifically speaking and unrepeatable in a scientific setting (for something to make itself, or create itself. As in the multiverse creating itself in space time ex-nihilo (from nothing)). So I am asking you to be honest with yourself and your followers here, and please provide proof for your premise that the multiverse is outside of time. I know for a fact now that you can't, so we have exhausted the atheist viewpoint at this time. Thank you for the debate. And thank you for being cordial for the most part. That is very mature of you, thanks.The universe isn’t inside or outside of anything. It is not subject to anything. Only the things inside it are subject to rules. When you ask questions and then try to answer them for me, it shows that you’re really not here to learn anything because you think you already know the answer when in fact you’re wrong, and that is the height of arrogance. Your continued attempts to argue that because things inside the universe are subject to time, the universe itself must be subject to time, is the fallacy of composition. I have repeated myself far more times than I care to now. To learn more about the fallacy of composition, please visit Fallacy of Composition
And again, my viewpoint doesn’t have to explain anything. I don’t claim to have all the answers. Just because I don’t know something doesn’t mean God is the answer. It is not evidence of God to say “well what else could it be?” That is argument from ignorance. To learn more about the argument from ignorance, please visit Argument from Ignorance
I’m actually surprised that a theist hasn’t tried to stop this, as badly as it’s going for him...so I read your post, can you please quote just the portion where you prove that the multiverse does not have the fourth dimension? Time? As I have said, space time exists in all of space and matter. There is no valid reason for assuming the multiverse is not in time. You assume so because you have to believe the multiverse had no beginning. But you know, honestly, deep down...that it did. What you are saying is that you believe something that is unknown scientifically speaking and unrepeatable in a scientific setting (for something to make itself, or create itself. As in the multiverse creating itself in space time ex-nihilo (from nothing)). So I am asking you to be honest with yourself and your followers here, and please provide proof for your premise that the multiverse is outside of time. I know for a fact now that you can't, so we have exhausted the atheist viewpoint at this time. Thank you for the debate. And thank you for being cordial for the most part. That is very mature of you, thanks.
Have you ever heard of the saying, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it? I feel bad for you, you must feel empty inside. Come to Jesus. Give him all of your sin. Accept Him into your heart by faith. Turn from the things that dishonor God and do the things that honor Him. I promise, you will never be the same. Jesus takes our sin and shame, and clothes us in His righteousness. I love the fact that the universe, and my life personally has meaning and a purpose for being. You can have that meaning and purpose too. It is not by chance that christians are here that can help you with your doubt. God is strategically placing us at turning points in your life. But you have to Trust Him. What is keeping you from accepting Jesus today?I’m actually surprised that a theist hasn’t tried to stop this, as badly as it’s going for him...
Have you ever heard of the saying, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it?
Come to Jesus.
Faith can virtually be used for any belief.Give him all of your sin. Accept Him into your heart by faith.
Turn from the things that dishonor God and do the things that honor Him.
I promise, you will never be the same.
Jesus takes our sin and shame, and clothes us in His righteousness. I love the fact that the universe, and my life personally has meaning and a purpose for being. You can have that meaning and purpose too.
It is not by chance that christians are here that can help you with your doubt. God is strategically placing us at turning points in your life. But you have to Trust Him. What is keeping you from accepting Jesus today?
I was a Christian for many years until I figured out I didn’t have a reason to be a Christian.Have you ever heard of the saying, if you don't have something nice to say, don't say it? I feel bad for you, you must feel empty inside. Come to Jesus. Give him all of your sin. Accept Him into your heart by faith. Turn from the things that dishonor God and do the things that honor Him. I promise, you will never be the same. Jesus takes our sin and shame, and clothes us in His righteousness. I love the fact that the universe, and my life personally has meaning and a purpose for being. You can have that meaning and purpose too. It is not by chance that christians are here that can help you with your doubt. God is strategically placing us at turning points in your life. But you have to Trust Him. What is keeping you from accepting Jesus today?
I would love to discuss more with you, message me.May I?
I'm sure he has. So why do you then exercise the very same conduct, in which you are claiming of your opponent? Case and point: 'I feel bad for you, you must feel empty inside.'
What might one do, in my case for instance, when I was raised in it, brought up in it, taught many things about it, prayed to a claimed God/Jesus for over three decades, asking for proof of existence, only to never receive any? All-the-while, doing so in accordance, and as promised by the Bible (i.e.)
Matthew 7:7, Matthew 21:22, Mark 11:24, John 14:13-14, and John 16:23
Faith can virtually be used for any belief.
You mean, condone slavery and illustrate that women are said to have lesser rights than men - for uncontrollable reasons, and to also issue a compulsory proposition of belief an repent, or to instead burn forever? No thanks.
How could you be? Beginning to believe anything new of perceived importance, which changes your perspective on life drastically (i.e. religion, politics, etc), and you are never the same.
Applying 'intentional agency' does place us at ease. Thinking someone is watching over you can bring comfort during trying times.
I'm happy for you; that you believing in such seems to give you purpose. It's kind of like looking for to the ultimate vacation ahead... You can keep telling yourself, 'Wow, I'm having a really bad day, week, or month; but at least I have this vacation to look forward to.' In this case, the vacation translates to 'heaven.'
No, it is not chance. We are deliberately engaging within this forum arena.
He doesn't need to prove anything. You presented an argument that God must exist because of the dichotomy you created. All we have to do is point out possible alternatives. Unless you can prove that those alternatives are impossible, your dichotomy fails and so does your argument.so I read your post, can you please quote just the portion where you prove that the multiverse does not have the fourth dimension? Time? As I have said, space time exists in all of space and matter. There is no valid reason for assuming the multiverse is not in time. You assume so because you have to believe the multiverse had no beginning. But you know, honestly, deep down...that it did. What you are saying is that you believe something that is unknown scientifically speaking and unrepeatable in a scientific setting (for something to make itself, or create itself. As in the multiverse creating itself in space time ex-nihilo (from nothing)). So I am asking you to be honest with yourself and your followers here, and please provide proof for your premise that the multiverse is outside of time. I know for a fact now that you can't, so we have exhausted the atheist viewpoint at this time. Thank you for the debate. And thank you for being cordial for the most part. That is very mature of you, thanks.
a false dichotomy is one in which there are more variations that are not provided. But in this situation either the universe was created by something or someone, or it created itself. Those are the only two options. No false dichotomy.He doesn't need to prove anything. You presented an argument that God must exist because of the dichotomy you created. All we have to do is point out possible alternatives. Unless you can prove that those alternatives are impossible, your dichotomy fails and so does your argument.
And we're just going along with your reasoning to conclude that an eternal multiverse is possible. Whatever caused time to begin must be outside of time and not beholden to it, so when the multiverse caused time to begin by creating our universe, it must be outside of time and not beholden to it. Ergo, eternal.
The burden is on you to show that your dichotomy is still valid. None of us ever claimed the multiverse exists or that it is a certain way. All we claimed is that it might be, and that's all we have to claim.
Right, and I'm saying that the "something" that created the universe might be a multiverse. Now you're going to ask, "Where did the multiverse come from?" and the answer to that is "The multiverse might be eternal because it created time and is therefore 'outside' it".a false dichotomy is one in which there are more variations that are not provided. But in this situation either the universe was created by something or someone, or it created itself. Those are the only two options. No false dichotomy.
most people don't have an intellectual problem with christianity. They usually have a moral problem. It's a combination of unmet expectations from God, as well as giving into temptations. For example I didn't have an intellectual problem with eating 2 slices of sausage and pepperoni pizza today at break time, I had a moral problem. I usually get a reward for losing an extra ten pounds, but my reward was yesterday. Today I ate that pizza no problem. Without thinking. That is just an example. Pizza is not sin. But you know what I mean. It's not that I had a problem with the carb counting, I fully understood and accepted the logic of it. It's simply that I wanted pizza. I believe the non believer has the same problem. God does not offer the pizza they like, so they reject God and Christianity because it's too hard. And also because of unmet expectations. For example a child is molested by his father for ten years growing up. He lacks trust in parental figures and God as a result. God did not keep this poor child from experiencing that pain, so because of this unmet expectation, He rejects God and falls into temptation as a side affect. But the truth is that adam and eve sinned in the garden, creating a fallen world that is under the dominion of satan. So now because of that sin, we live in a fallen world with disease and evil. So if people truly understood the problem of evil, their unmet expectations would self correct. And at that point, all that is required is repentance. And it is this last step that holds most of the world up.I was a Christian for many years until I figured out I didn’t have a reason to be a Christian.
I still have no reason to be a Christian...most people don't have an intellectual problem with christianity. They usually have a moral problem. It's a combination of unmet expectations from God, as well as giving into temptations. For example I didn't have an intellectual problem with eating 2 slices of sausage and pepperoni pizza today at break time, I had a moral problem. I usually get a reward for losing an extra ten pounds, but my reward was yesterday. Today I ate that pizza no problem. Without thinking. That is just an example. Pizza is not sin. But you know what I mean. It's not that I had a problem with the carb counting, I fully understood and accepted the logic of it. It's simply that I wanted pizza. I believe the non believer has the same problem. God does not offer the pizza they like, so they reject God and Christianity because it's too hard. And also because of unmet expectations. For example a child is molested by his father for ten years growing up. He lacks trust in parental figures and God as a result. God did not keep this poor child from experiencing that pain, so because of this unmet expectation, He rejects God and falls into temptation as a side affect. But the truth is that adam and eve sinned in the garden, creating a fallen world that is under the dominion of satan. So now because of that sin, we live in a fallen world with disease and evil. So if people truly understood the problem of evil, their unmet expectations would self correct. And at that point, all that is required is repentance. And it is this last step that holds most of the world up.
I still have no reason to be a Christian...
they why are you on christian forums? If you are not at all interested in it?I still have no reason to be a Christian...
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