Argument for God's existence.

Moral Orel · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
actually gravity carries the rain to the ground to form a puddle. The rain cloud's job is essentially over after the rain is too heavy.

So what creates rain puddles then? You're fighting this analogy in a strange way, so I'll let you decide the actors. What creates rain puddles? The rain? Gravity? What?

Moral Orel · May 19, 2019

@gradyll So, originally you asked where the multiverse gained it's ability to create other universes. I'd say that creating universes is part of the definition of a multiverse, and if it wasn't creating other universes, it wouldn't be a multiverse. The multiverse never "gained" that ability, it always had that ability.

You also asked why a multiverse would "choose" to create other universes. I tried to illustrate that not everything makes "choices", they simply do what they do, by using the rain cloud analogy, but your responses to that are too bizarre to quibble over. Why does a rock choose to be a rock? It doesn't, rocks don't have free will.

Those two questions you posed were your defeaters for a multiverse being the cause of the universe. Got anything else?

ToddNotTodd · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
I believe you are bitter because you have hidden sin, maybe it's internet porn, or cell phone porn, or homosexuality. This hidden bitterness comes out in all your posts. Maybe if you sought for help for those addictions, you wouldn't be as bitter. I have been free from all of that for at least seven years, and it's been a great place to be. I am only trying to help.

Jesus offers a solution to addiction, give initial repentance, believe in Christ in your hopelessness, He comes into your life and cleans it up for you, as well as giving you eternal life, and forgiving you for all your sins. Removing the punishment of Hell. If there was one chance in a million of all those benefits, I would run to Jesus, if I wasn't saved. It's the logical choice.

You seem to not be listening to what I’m saying. I would think that listening skills would be imperative to a Christian apologist.

As I’ve said before, as a non theist I don’t believe in sin. I’ve also said I used to be a Christian, and am no longer one due to lack of evidence. In addition, I’ve shown that the “one chance in a million” applies to an almost infinite list of gods and their terrible afterlifes, so picking one god over another is an arbitrary decision.

I’m actually more interested in your pride. People on this website have said you’re not being an effective apologist. I’ve told you that people are deconverting partly because of your posts. I’ve mentioned that three of my Christian friends think you’re doing more harm than good.

And yet you persist.

I believe that if a stadium full of people deconverted because of your posts, you’d still persist. I also believe that if a stadium full of Christians begged you to stop because of the harm you’re doing, you’d still persist.

You might want to take a look at that pride of yours...

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

Nicholas Deka said:
So what creates rain puddles then? You're fighting this analogy in a strange way, so I'll let you decide the actors. What creates rain puddles? The rain? Gravity? What?

water does.

Eight Foot Manchild · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
I believe you are bitter because you have hidden sin, maybe it's internet porn, or cell phone porn, or homosexuality. This hidden bitterness comes out in all your posts. Maybe if you sought for help for those addictions, you wouldn't be as bitter. I have been free from all of that for at least seven years, and it's been a great place to be. I am only trying to help.

Jesus offers a solution to addiction, give initial repentance, believe in Christ in your hopelessness, He comes into your life and cleans it up for you, as well as giving you eternal life, and forgiving you for all your sins. Removing the punishment of Hell. If there was one chance in a million of all those benefits, I would run to Jesus, if I wasn't saved. It's the logical choice.

You are the worst apologist I have ever encountered.

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

ToddNotTodd said:
You seem to not be listening to what I’m saying. I would think that listening skills would be imperative to a Christian apologist.

As I’ve said before, as a non theist I don’t believe in sin. I’ve also said I used to be a Christian, and am no longer one due to lack of evidence. In addition, I’ve shown that the “one chance in a million” applies to an almost infinite list of gods and their terrible afterlifes, so picking one god over another is an arbitrary decision.

I’m actually more interested in your pride. People on this website have said you’re not being an effective apologist. I’ve told you that people are deconverting partly because of your posts. I’ve mentioned that three of my Christian friends think you’re doing more harm than good.

And yet you persist.

I believe that if a stadium full of people deconverted because of your posts, you’d still persist. I also believe that if a stadium full of Christians begged you to stop because of the harm you’re doing, you’d still persist.

You might want to take a look at that pride of yours...

sir thats a good thing if I am weeding out the weak christians.

God want's quality, not quantity.

so I actually am glad to ruffle feathers.

Jesus when he fed the five thousand, to weed out those who were weak, started talking crazy like

"eat my flesh and drink my blood."

He used allegory to offend all those around, so they "no longer walked with him."

then he asked the 12 diciples "will you leave me too."

so I am doing what Jesus would do, and that is all I can strive for.

that last thing I would want in the world is to give security to a false convert.

Tinker Grey · May 19, 2019

If God himself called me to weed out (and thereby condemn to hell) "weak" believers, I'd refuse.

gaara4158 · May 19, 2019

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

Nicholas Deka said:
@gradyll So, originally you asked where the multiverse gained it's ability to create other universes. I'd say that creating universes is part of the definition of a multiverse, and if it wasn't creating other universes, it wouldn't be a multiverse. The multiverse never "gained" that ability, it always had that ability.

You also asked why a multiverse would "choose" to create other universes. I tried to illustrate that not everything makes "choices", they simply do what they do, by using the rain cloud analogy, but your responses to that are too bizarre to quibble over. Why does a rock choose to be a rock? It doesn't, rocks don't have free will.

Those two questions you posed were your defeaters for a multiverse being the cause of the universe. Got anything else?

If you can provide evidence of a multiverse, let alone one with creative ability sir, I would appaud you as someone who could do what millions have not.

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
If God himself called me to weed out (and thereby condemn to hell) "weak" believers, I'd refuse.

He doesn't command us to do so, but if it happens by default, then God's will be done. I cannot make people accept it

Tinker Grey · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
He doesn't command us to do so, but if it happens by default, then God's will be done. I cannot make people accept it

You could stop wrecking it.

ToddNotTodd · May 19, 2019

Eight Foot Manchild said:
You are the worst apologist I have ever encountered.

Well, from my standpoint he’s the best apologist ever. I mean, anybody who gleefully scores points for your team instead of their own team is ok in my book.

ToddNotTodd · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
Jesus when he fed the five thousand, to weed out those who were weak, started talking crazy like "eat my flesh and drink my blood."

So, do you believe that an apologist should know what the Bible actually says, or is that as unimportant as understanding your own apologetic arguments, or the ability to persuade people?

Moral Orel · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
If you can provide evidence of a multiverse, let alone one with creative ability sir, I would appaud you as someone who could do what millions have not.

So then you can't prove it impossible and I win. Neat.

So, sure. A painting needs a painter like a universe needs a creator. But multiverse theory is just as valid a theory for a creator as God is. That's all I ever set out to prove, so I did.

Moral Orel · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
Spontaneous generation was disprove 100 years ago.

Now that multiverse theory is settled as valid, yet unproven, let's move on to this. Can you tell me very briefly in your own words how scientists disproved Spontaneous Generation?

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

Tinker Grey said:
You could stop wrecking it.

I am doing exactly what is commanded of me. Many people say God will give you pleasure, riches, and satisfaction. Truth be told christianity is the hardest thing I have done in my life. Well worth the effort, but it's a far cry from peace and prosperity. That is what is called the prosperity Gospel, and so declaring the pure gospel, in all it's commandments for the wicked to repent of their internet pornography and homosexuality, is a good thing.

when God calls us to repentance its always from a wicked thing that hurts us, and toward a pure thing that helps us.

so if that is considered "wrecking christianity."

well let's just say that it would be a good thing to be wrecked.

so a good foundation could be built.

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

Nicholas Deka said:
Now that multiverse theory is settled as valid, yet unproven, let's move on to this. Can you tell me very briefly in your own words how scientists disproved Spontaneous Generation?

sir, you are going back and forth back and forth. If you admit to using blind faith in a multiverse, we can move on. You throw these terms out there, but I don't think you are fully contemplating what you are saying.

createdtoworship · May 19, 2019

ToddNotTodd said:
So, do you believe that an apologist should know what the Bible actually says, or is that as unimportant as understanding your own apologetic arguments, or the ability to persuade people?

I am not sure I fully understand your question could you rephrase?

in the mean while, I had further confirmation while reading my bible today, so I wanted to post what I read, If you are open to christianity as an atheist, I recommend reading it in full, if you are not open to christianity, well I recommend finding a pursuit that you are interested in, perhaps a humanist website or such, here is the verse I read today, it's a little long but worth the read: It basically shows how God himself speaks in parables to test those who hear him, so only those who are chosen will recieve an interpretation to the parable, then at the end of the chapter he talks about how their are false christians who grow up with the true christians, and he recommends not removing them now, but waiting for God to remove the thorns from the good crop in the judgement.

Matthew 13 New King James Version (NKJV)
The Parable of the Sower
13 On the same day Jesus went out of the house and sat by the sea. 2 And great multitudes were gathered together to Him, so that He got into a boat and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 Then He spoke many things to them in parables, saying: “Behold, a sower went out to sow. 4 And as he sowed, some seed fell by the wayside; and the birds came and devoured them. 5 Some fell on stony places, where they did not have much earth; and they immediately sprang up because they had no depth of earth. 6 But when the sun was up they were scorched, and because they had no root they withered away. 7 And some fell among thorns, and the thorns sprang up and choked them. 8 But others fell on good ground and yielded a crop: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty. 9 He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

The Purpose of Parables
10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?”

11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the [a]mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. 12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:

‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
15 For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; 17 for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it.

The Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles. 22 Now he who received seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful. 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”

The Parable of the Wheat and the Tares
24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way. 26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.” ’ ”

The Parable of the Mustard Seed
31 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and sowed in his field, 32 which indeed is the least of all the seeds; but when it is grown it is greater than the herbs and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and nest in its branches.”

Moral Orel · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
sir, you are going back and forth back and forth. If you admit to using blind faith in a multiverse, we can move on. You throw these terms out there, but I don't think you are fully contemplating what you are saying.

I do know exactly what I'm saying. I claimed that multiverse theory is possibly the answer to the origins of this universe, and you have shown that you have no reason to discount it. I don't have a belief about the origin of the universe, I just don't know.

There is plenty of evidence in cosmology and mathematics and physics to show multiverse theory is plausible, but I don't need to go into all of that. I only needed to show it was possible. You claimed it was impossible, therefore God must have done it, and you were shown to be wrong when you ran out of objections to the theory.

Now that that is settled, let's move on to Spontaneous Generation. Please tell me briefly in your own words how they disproved Spontaneous Generation.

ToddNotTodd · May 19, 2019

gradyll said:
sir, you are going back and forth back and forth. If you admit to using blind faith in a multiverse, we can move on. You throw these terms out there, but I don't think you are fully contemplating what you are saying.

You are, for the umpteenth time, saying people have “blind faith” in a multiverse, when no one has said they believed a multiverse to be actually existent. I doubt you could even find a cosmologist to say that.

Do you realize you’re seeming like the most dishonest apologist I’ve ever encountered? You may not be, but instead just not paying attention to anything anyone is saying, but either way it doesn’t look good for you.

And with all talk about pornography and homosexuality, it sounds like projection to me. You may want to look into that, along with your pride issues.

Just trying to help...

Argument for God's existence.

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