Arg...I need advice.

[Tinkerbell222222]

Whee. I wonder if any of you remember me...it's been almost a month since I've been on CF...and I had just decided to convert to Catholicism when I left...so I hadn't been around much. But, after a busy month, I am back, and I have a dillemma that I would like advise on...

My parents agreed to let me convert to Catholicism and go to Mass provided that I can arrange for transportation (Which, praise God, I've been able to and that I remain active in the youth group at our family's Protestant church (they both work in youth ministry). I found this an absolutely wonderful arrangement.

Then, my youth pastor told me that if I am going to be involved in Youth Group, I am not to talk about my disagreements with the church's teachings on Catholicism (basically, that it is a "cult" on par with the Church of the Latter Day Saints), so that I don't cause division within the church. I was able to deal with that, although I didn't find it particularly fair.

This last week was my Spring Break and I was asked to go with my youth group to Mexico on a week long mission trip and be the student leader for evangelism. I agreed...Now, when we got there, I found out that "evangelism" means converting Catholics to Evangelicalism. Grr. I really didn't know how to handle that. Since I was the only one who speaks Spanish fluently, I was able be...err...slightly dishonest in what I said (which is much to my shame, now as I look back on it) and tell the others that I had tried to talk someone out of Catholicism, when really I was just talking to them about Catholicism in general and about my converting to it.

Later on, when we were meeting in small groups for Bible study, one of the girls said that the dear Pope would not go to heaven. Arg. I spoke up and got severely reprimanded.

I don't know what to do right now...I want very much to honor my parents and continue attending youth group, but at the same time...I can't stand some of the teaching that takes place, because it is just not true! And, if I'm to go to youth group, I can't speak out against it.

What do you all think I should do?

 

[Benedicta00]

Whee. I wonder if any of you remember me...it's been almost a month since I've been on CF...and I had just decided to convert to Catholicism when I left...so I hadn't been around much. But, after a busy month, I am back, and I have a dillemma that I would like advise on...

My parents agreed to let me convert to Catholicism and go to Mass provided that I can arrange for transportation (Which, praise God, I've been able to and that I remain active in the youth group at our family's Protestant church (they both work in youth ministry). I found this an absolutely wonderful arrangement.

Then, my youth pastor told me that if I am going to be involved in Youth Group, I am not to talk about my disagreements with the church's teachings on Catholicism (basically, that it is a "cult" on par with the Church of the Latter Day Saints), so that I don't cause division within the church. I was able to deal with that, although I didn't find it particularly fair.

This last week was my Spring Break and I was asked to go with my youth group to Mexico on a week long mission trip and be the student leader for evangelism. I agreed...Now, when we got there, I found out that "evangelism" means converting Catholics to Evangelicalism. Grr. I really didn't know how to handle that. Since I was the only one who speaks Spanish fluently, I was able be...err...slightly dishonest in what I said (which is much to my shame, now as I look back on it) and tell the others that I had tried to talk someone out of Catholicism, when really I was just talking to them about Catholicism in general and about my converting to it.

Later on, when we were meeting in small groups for Bible study, one of the girls said that the dear Pope would not go to heaven. Arg. I spoke up and got severely reprimanded.

I don't know what to do right now...I want very much to honor my parents and continue attending youth group, but at the same time...I can't stand some of the teaching that takes place, because it is just not true! And, if I'm to go to youth group, I can't speak out against it.

What do you all think I should do?

Not to disrespect your parents but they knew this is what would happen, that is why they made the deal. Hoping the youth group would get you away from the Church.

I think if you really have to, then you should wait till you can go to Mass freely and convert as an adult. Tell your parents that you will wait to covert if it means you have to be involved with anti Catholic ministries.

 

[ProCommunioneFacior]

Whee. I wonder if any of you remember me...it's been almost a month since I've been on CF...and I had just decided to convert to Catholicism when I left...so I hadn't been around much. But, after a busy month, I am back, and I have a dillemma that I would like advise on...

My parents agreed to let me convert to Catholicism and go to Mass provided that I can arrange for transportation (Which, praise God, I've been able to and that I remain active in the youth group at our family's Protestant church (they both work in youth ministry). I found this an absolutely wonderful arrangement.

Then, my youth pastor told me that if I am going to be involved in Youth Group, I am not to talk about my disagreements with the church's teachings on Catholicism (basically, that it is a "cult" on par with the Church of the Latter Day Saints), so that I don't cause division within the church. I was able to deal with that, although I didn't find it particularly fair.

This last week was my Spring Break and I was asked to go with my youth group to Mexico on a week long mission trip and be the student leader for evangelism. I agreed...Now, when we got there, I found out that "evangelism" means converting Catholics to Evangelicalism. Grr. I really didn't know how to handle that. Since I was the only one who speaks Spanish fluently, I was able be...err...slightly dishonest in what I said (which is much to my shame, now as I look back on it) and tell the others that I had tried to talk someone out of Catholicism, when really I was just talking to them about Catholicism in general and about my converting to it.

Later on, when we were meeting in small groups for Bible study, one of the girls said that the dear Pope would not go to heaven. Arg. I spoke up and got severely reprimanded.

I don't know what to do right now...I want very much to honor my parents and continue attending youth group, but at the same time...I can't stand some of the teaching that takes place, because it is just not true! And, if I'm to go to youth group, I can't speak out against it.

What do you all think I should do?

Well, this is what I would do. I would sit down with your parents and respectfully what you have described here, let them know that you have a conflict of conscience by meeting their ultimatum. Ask them if they can change the ultimatum.

If they refuse, then personally I would stop attending the youth group and wait til your 18(how long before you turn 18?) before you go to Catholic Mass again.

Also, your story about Mexico reminded me of another person's trip to Mexico, I think it was Crystal Brooke, unless I'm mistaken. Maybe you can contact her and trade stories. All kidding aside, I do think it is extremely sad what some christian "evangelists" are doing in Latin America, how they are lying outright to faithful Catholics, some of whom have little catechesis and do not have the tools or know how to defend themselves and their beliefs.

 

[seebs]

I think you have a golden opportunity, if you can find the patience, to talk to the people reprimanding you about these teachings and so on, and correct some misconceptions. IMHO, speaking as a very non-Catholic, I think that it is impossible for Christians to believe Catholics "unsaved" without some serious misunderstandings.

 

[Benedicta00]

I do think it is extremely sad what some christian "evangelists" are doing in Latin America, how they are lying outright to faithful Catholics, some of whom have little catechesis and do not have the tools or know how to defend themselves and their beliefs.

This is something I feel also is a real horrible thing these groups are doing. Jesus saying that he who leads other little ones into sin, it would be better that they had cement shoes, swimming with the fishies. Paraphrasing, of course.

These groups are real wimps, learning Spanish, going to poor countries who, all they have is their faith in this world and taking that away from them because they are easy prey, oh boy, I hope they truly are ignorant of what they are doing for their own soul’s sake.

 

[Aymn27]

This is something I feel also is a real horrible thing these groups are doing. Jesus saying that he who leads other little ones into sin, it would be better that they had cement shoes, swimming with the fishies. Paraphrasing, of course.

These groups are real wimps, learning Spanish, going to poor countries who, all they have is their faith in this world and taking that away from them because they are easy prey, oh boy, I hope they truly are ignorant of what they are doing for their own soul’s sake.

Come Come now!! They really in their heart of hearts believe that they are saving souls - if only we had such zeal!! (perhaps it is OUR fault that they are so poorly catechized!!)

My observation - God is calling you to something. I know it is confusing and conflicting, but you could be working for the Holy Spirit in the lives of others. PRAY PRAY PRAY! Seek what the Lord has intended for you to do. You may end up leading others into the Church as well. Don't let anyone tell you that you are too young/immature, etc.. Our Lady was young and see the results of her devotion to God...

 

[NDIrish]

Come Come now!! They really in their heart of hearts believe that they are saving souls - if only we had such zeal!! (perhaps it is OUR fault that they are so poorly catechized!!)

Nazi's had zeal too, but that didn't mean they were right to do what they did, does it?

 

[lonnienord]

Hi Hands and feet of JESUS,

May GOD be with you now and always!!

First talk to the youth pastor and tell him that if no one attacts the Catholic church you will not say anything about your beliefs but if someone attacts the Church you feel you should have the right to defend it. If he bans you from the youth group go to your parents and tell them exactly what you told the youth pastor and see what they say. If they say you have to accept his rules and be a part of the youth group in order to go to Church then quit both.

In the meen time may i suggest two very very Catholic books to read: 1. The Bible (try to get a Catholic translation if possible but if not the Revised Standard Version is accepted by both Catholics and Protestants. 2 The Catachism of the Catholic Church. It is available on line. Read those!

I am praying for you. Come back here as often as you can!!

all for JESUS!!
lonnie

 

[D'Ann]

Hi Hands and feet of JESUS,

May GOD be with you now and always!!

First talk to the youth pastor and tell him that if no one attacts the Catholic church you will not say anything about your beliefs but if someone attacts the Church you feel you should have the right to defend it. If he bans you from the youth group go to your parents and tell them exactly what you told the youth pastor and see what they say. If they say you have to accept his rules and be a part of the youth group in order to go to Church then quit both.

In the meen time may i suggest two very very Catholic books to read: 1. The Bible (try to get a Catholic translation if possible but if not the Revised Standard Version is accepted by both Catholics and Protestants. 2 The Catachism of the Catholic Church. It is available on line. Read those!

I am praying for you. Come back here as often as you can!!

all for JESUS!!
lonnie

Amen and Amen...Everyone is giving good advice...but Lonnie... you said the exact words that I was thinking...(or close to 'em)...

May I also recommend to check out some of the OBOB "Sticky" In one of those stickies there is a Table of Contents...within those contents are many wonderful words to help you and encourage you and give you the knowledge that you may need to get you through the upcoming struggles.

Also, here are some websites that I believe most of us would also recommend.

www.catholicexchange.com
www.catholic-legate.com
www.catholicanswers.com

Catholic Catechism address:

http://www.christusrex.org/www2/kerygma/ccc/searchcat.html

Dave Armstrong's website address:

http://ic.net/~erasmus/RAZINDEX.HTM

Catholic Dictionary website address:

http://www.newadvent.com/

God's Peace,

D'Ann

 

[thereselittleflower]

Hi Hands and feet of JESUS,

May GOD be with you now and always!!

First talk to the youth pastor and tell him that if no one attacts the Catholic church you will not say anything about your beliefs but if someone attacts the Church you feel you should have the right to defend it. If he bans you from the youth group go to your parents and tell them exactly what you told the youth pastor and see what they say. If they say you have to accept his rules and be a part of the youth group in order to go to Church then quit both.

I was going to suggest something along the same lines.

You should not compromise you faith or participate in something that requires you to do so.

You can look at this in two ways . . . you just simply go and put in your time, say nothing, get into no arguments, and do not participate in any activities that would require you to go against your faith. After those meetings, go home and build up your Catholic faith by reading literature that builds up your faith, and counters what ever may be shared there.

There is a neat book I came across that you might find helpful to your situation . . it is an apologeitcs novel . . it is called "A Philadelphia Yankee in King James Court" . . In it, the hero finds himself in a situation somewhat similar to what you find yourelf in right now (though not exactly the same, there is no gag order for instance) . . . I think it might help you find a way to deal with you situation, come to a decision.


The other thing is more in line with the post above . . . talk to your youth pastor, explain the dilema for you, and that you cannot in good conscience keep silent when your faith is attacked. They may ban you from the group.

The arrangement with your parents was that you choose to go to youth group of your own free will, is that right? If you are banned from your youth group and you are no longer allowed to go, then it is not because you choose not to go, but someone else has chosen that you do not go.

If the choice is made for you by your youth pastor, then you can in good conscience say to your parents, "I tried, but they won't let me go" and explain, saying that if the church allows you to go back, you will, but you are not going to sit quietly by while your beliefs are attacked. Respectfully poiint out that a "gag order" was not part of your original agreement with your parents, and you did not agree to such an arrangement.

Your parents are going to do one of two things . . Either they are going to let you go to Mass even though you can't go to youth group; or they are going to prohibit you from going to Mass unless you agree to the new condition which amounts to a "gag order".

Throughout all this, you need to do your best to demonstrate to your parents a Christ like attitude of submission to their authority, just as Christ did at the wedding of Cana. You will testify to the truth of the Catholic faith more strongly in your attitude and obedience than you will by fighting them.

Just stand firm that the "gag order" you are being required to adhere to goes against your conscience and morals, and you cannot in good faith comply with this condition that has been placed on you after the fact.

Stand firm in your convictions, but do so in charity and obedience, respect and submission to your parent's authority.

God will honor you all the more for it . . . if you can't go to Mass as a result of all this till you are 18.


The other thing to do is this . . . your parents have given you permission to convert, right?

Have you spoken to the priest of your parish about this situation? One of the things I would do first is make an appointment to talk to him about this and seek his advice. He may be able to help you with your parents as well.


Hang in there . . it is not much longer, one way or the other, before this is resolved for you.


Peace in Him!

 

[nyj]

What do you all think I should do?

Dump the youth group, and join the one at your Catholic parish.

You tried, obediently (and are to be commended) to honor the wishes of your parents, but they need to be made aware of the difficult situation you are now in because of your willingness to work with them on this. Hopefully, they'll see this and agree to free you from this "obligation".

In the meantime, I'll pray for you in this regard. Keep us updated.

 

[Gwendolyn]

Wow... I don't know what to say... it makes me feel sick to read about the fact that individuals who have the audacity to spread lies and intolerance would dare call themselves Christians.Perhaps your parents wanted you to become more involved in your Protestant church in the hope that it would discourage you from converting to Catholicism.

I don't know what to tell you... this deal is clearly not working, and you have honoured their wishes, but are they really justified in subjecting you to such things simply because you seek the Truth? I don't think so. I'm with nyj - join the youth group at your Catholic parish, because it will be far more fruitful, and you will certainly not receive any negativity or intolerance there.

 

[Tinkerbell222222]

Thank you all for your help and encouragement. I apreciate it very much and it has been quite helpful to me.

I don't know what I am going to do yet, but I shall keep praying for guidance and trusting that God has a plan for all this.

Thanks especially for the recomendations of books and websites to read. I've been studying for a while now, but there is still so much I don't know...

Normally, going to youth group is not that bad, its very Reformed in the teachings, so there are theological issues, but there are not normally teachings viciously attacking Catholicism...however,they recently started going over "Non-Christian" groups...*rolls eyes* and that on top of what happened in Mexico frustrated me quite a bit. Some days I think I can just put up with it for another year or so, other days...

Anyway, thanks for the prayers and advice. God bless you all!

 

[plainswolf]

Hands and feet,
I must say that I admire your courage and the force of your convictions in taking risk to defend Catholicism! OUSTANDING young lady!

J.M.J.
Mark

 

[MParedon]

I honestly don't know what advise to give on helping you with your final decision, but I do suggest something for you to do now. Everytime there is an anti-Catholic remark made that upsets you, pass it along to your mom or dad. Let them know that you were upset by it and you feel powerless and sad in those situations. Don't try to attack your parents for putting you through this, but share with them the things you are going through in a conversational manner.
One example in my life that I could give to help explain what I mean is (bear with me I tend to be long winded ):

When I was young I started taking piano lessons. My parents sacrificed and worked hard to get me a piano, encourage me, and get me to practices, recitals, etc.. (they both worked beyond full-time at their restaurant, and they had many bills, payments, responcibilities at that time that stretched them very thin). In my pre-teens I changed piano teachers and while I could stand my new teacher and like her at times when my sister took piano lessons with me, later on after my sister stopped lessons (in her twenties) I found it extremely difficult to get along with my teacher, my interest in piano started to seriously wane. I expressed my wishes to stop piano lessons, but my parents made it clear that both I and they invested alot of time in this and I couldn't just give up. I stuck with piano, but I did not stay silent about my difficulties with the teacher. I didn't badger my parents about her, but I just shared with them those episodes that really strained me. My parents sympathised with me and did their best to help me out. When I finally reached 17, I decided I was no longer going to take piano lessons. I told my teacher and my parents accepted my decision.

Now, the basics of the story is that my parents new that I gave it a good try and did my best to stick with it and when the time finally came for me to leave, they weren't blindsided by my decision and they didn't feel like I was rebelling to throwing it in their faces. They knew about my journey and the details of all my struggles and effort, and thus they journeyed along with me. At times they were more upset with my teacher than I was.

So I would try to suggest that when blatant anti-Catholic remarks are made, talk to your parents about it. Let them know how you feel about being gagged about Catholicism and have people around you poking with a stick (whether they know it or not). Also, I don't know your parents, but I would think that there are some things about the Catholic Church that they might agree with you on. They might be equally offended or disenfranchised when they hear some blatent strawmen erected in order to make Catholicism look bad.

 

[Michelina]

I would simply speak the truth in all settings. If you speak the truth humbly and kindly, it is better for all concerned. It will eventually get you into hot water and may get you dismissed from the Youth Group. But that's better than putting your conscience thru contortions.