Are you Vineyard?

[Jim B]

Lboy, Here is the short article on Wimber’s and Ladd’s views of the Now but Not Yet aspect of the Kingdom. Enjoy.
Jim

----------

The Already & the Not Yet
By John Wimber
Paul makes much of the fact that Christ is seated “at his [the Father’s] right hand in the heavenly realms, far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every title that can be given, not only in the present age but also in the one to come” (Eph. 1:20-21). Christ is now in place of absolute authority over all other authorities; he is “the only ruler, the King of kings and the Lord of lords” (1 Tim 6:15). Yet, and this is the tension all Christians feel- evil has not yet been eradicated in this world.

For a time until the day of the Lord is completed at the second coming, we must live under two kingdoms; the kingdom of Satan and the kingdom of God. Oscar Cullmann, In Christ and Time compares our situation to that of the Allies in World War II after D-Day. The decisive battle of the war was fought and won by the Allies on D-Day, June 6, 1944.

But the war continued and was not over until months later! More American lives were lost between D-Day and V-E Day than at any other time during the war. So it is with Jesus; our D-Day is Easter Sunday, and our V-E Day is the second coming. Between the two, the war wages on.

How do we know the will of the Father and cooperate with his work here on earth? We are in war, and in war there are many battles, like the Allies in World War II- but we will win most of them. The kingdom of God comes intermittently, according to the Father’s will, and that is why it is our job to find out what His will is and cooperate with Him here on earth. He has a work strategy, though we may not always (if ever) discern it. Our part is to pray, “Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.” Then trust and obey. If we die trusting him, then our death contributes to fulfilling his purposes.

The kingdom is both future and present, it has been fulfilled in Christ’s first coming and will be consummated in his second coming. To quote George Ladd, we live between the “already and the not yet”- between the cross’ victory over sin and Satan and the age to come at Christ’s second coming. We have the assurance of eternal life now, and we experience the benefits of the kingdom, though only in part. John Calvin, in his Sermons on Ephesians put it this way:

“We must endure patiently, because God will not have us come to his kingdom with, so to speak, one leap, but will have us negotiate [cross] this world through thorns and briars, so that we shall have much trouble in getting through and we shall be in great distress.”

That is why Paul prays that we may know the ‘incomparable great power” that raised Jesus from the dead and seated him in the heavenly places (Eph. 1:18-19). He pray's we might be equipped with kingdom power, because for a time we must do battle in an evil world.

 

[enoch son]

Which vineyard should be the question? The one out of Calf. under Chruck. Or the Baptist chruches renaming there chruches so people would come?

 

[Jim B]

enoch son asked:

Which vineyard should be the question? The one out of Calf. under Chruck. Or the Baptist chruches renaming there chruches so people would come?

I am talking about the Association of Vineyard Churches, no longer based in California but now officed in Stafford TX (suburb of Houston). Website: www.VineyardUSA.org. I am not aware of any Baptist churches calling themselves Vineyard, but I am sure there are a few. What their motives may be, who knows? “Vineyard” is a biblical theme and I guess anyone can use it.

Blessings,
~Jim

 

[enoch son]

Red flag has gone up. Because chruck is still in cal. and i know he start the vineyard. I listern to his radio progam. God used him to start the Jesus Freak movement in the 60's.

 

[Jim B]

enoch son wrote:

Red flag has gone up. Because chruck is still in cal. and i know he start the vineyard. I listern to his radio progam. God used him to start the Jesus Freak movement in the 60's.

You must be talking about Chuck Smith. Pastor Smith serves the Calvary Chapel church in Costa Mesa CA (link http://calvarychapel.com/costamesa/index.htm) and heads the network of Calvary Chapel churches (see http://www.calvarychapel.org/) nationwide. And, yes, he was a leader in the Jesus Movement of the late 60s and 70s.

He is not Vineyard, although the Vineyard movement began among Calvary Chapel churches. John Wimber pastored a Calvary Chapel church until he and Chuck Smith reached an impasse on methodology. Wimber withdrew (with Smith’s blessing) to begin planting Vineyard churches. All this is covered in Bill Jackson’s book “Quest for the Radical Middle, A History of the Vineyard.”

The current director of the Association of Vineyard Churches is Bert Waggoner and the AVC offices are no longer in California. Both the AVC and Vineyard Music moved to Texas in 2002. (Link http://www.vineyardusa.org).

 

[decenso]

I attend the VCF of Virginia Beach.

 

[Jim B]

Rich Nathan and Ken Wilson have tried to find the "radical middle" between Charisnatics and Evangelicals in a book I can recommend to you entitled "Empowered Evangelicals: Bringing Together the Best of Evangelical and Charismatic World” with a forward by J. I. Packer. Both Nathan and Wilson are Vineyard and prefer the term “empowered evangelical” to describe the movement than the so-called “Third Wave,” a term first used by Peter Wagner. Third Wave is often confused with Alvin Tofler’s humanist term by the same name that is used to identify the technological revolution. Empowered Evangelical best defines what the Vineyard is.

Jim