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Are you still saved if you believe in the wrong things about Jesus?

ananda

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Are you still saved if you believe in the wrong things about Jesus?

For example, let's say you believe in 99% of the things you're "supposed to" about Jesus. But that 1% are errors, e.g. wrong ideas about his death/sacrifice; wrong ideas about his mission; wrong ideas about the responsibilities of the disciple; or, even wrong ideas about his name & its pronunciation, or any other detail about him.

If yes, you believe you're still saved, then at what percentage are you unsaved? 98% true beliefs? 75%? 49%? 1%?
 
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Dave-W

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"All who call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts2 quoting Joel 2.

It is not a matter of percentages.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Are you still saved if you believe in the wrong things about Jesus?

For example, let's say you believe in 99% of the things you're "supposed to" about Jesus. But that 1% are errors, e.g. wrong ideas about his death/sacrifice; wrong ideas about his mission; wrong ideas about the responsibilities of the disciple; or, even wrong ideas about his name & its pronunciation, or any other detail about him.

If yes, you believe you're still saved, then at what percentage are you unsaved? 98% true beliefs? 75%? 49%? 1%?

Well, I think it's very possible to be saved and have 'varying' views about Jesus. However, what kind of percentage of overall doctrine do we want to place on something like the doctrine of the Trinity? I personally don't think a person can apply a direct percentage type evaluation to this sort of thing. Besides, it's not as if the New Testament writers, nor even Jesus Himself as we see some of His words represented in the Bible, covered all ideas pertaining to 'correct doctrine' in a rigid, systematic, and comprehensive way. There has been some bit of 'wiggle room' left by God for all of us to ponder over the various theological, metaphysical, epistemological, and even ethical motifs we find in the pages of our sacred book.

:cool:
 
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ananda

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"All who call on the Name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts2 quoting Joel 2.

It is not a matter of percentages.
Thank you for your answer.

What's the Name of the Lord that saves & why? YHWH? Jehovah? "Name of the Lord"? Jesus? Iesous? Yeshua? Yehoshua? Joshua? Allah? Buddha?
 
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ananda

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Well, I think it's very possible to be saved and have 'varying' views about Jesus. However, what kind of percentage of overall doctrine do we want to place on something like the doctrine of the Trinity? I personally don't think a person can apply a direct percentage type evaluation to this sort of thing. Besides, it's not as if the New Testament writers, nor even Jesus Himself as we see some of His words represented in the Bible, covered all ideas pertaining to 'correct doctrine' in a rigid, systematic, and comprehensive way. There has been some bit of 'wiggle room' left by God for all of us to ponder over the various theological, metaphysical, epistemological, and even ethical motifs we find in the pages of our sacred book.

:cool:
What is that degree of "wiggle room", is my question.
 
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Chinchilla

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Are you still saved if you believe in the wrong things about Jesus?

For example, let's say you believe in 99% of the things you're "supposed to" about Jesus. But that 1% are errors, e.g. wrong ideas about his death/sacrifice; wrong ideas about his mission; wrong ideas about the responsibilities of the disciple; or, even wrong ideas about his name & its pronunciation, or any other detail about him.

If yes, you believe you're still saved, then at what percentage are you unsaved? 98% true beliefs? 75%? 49%? 1%?

You either believe that he atoned for your sins , was God and rose from the dead or not.
There is no 99% or 98% .
You don't even have to read the Bible to be saved .
It's good to know what to do after you are saved and become a Child of God but not necessary for salvation because it's not of works .
Ephesians 2:8-9
Galatians 2:16
 
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2PhiloVoid

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What is that degree of "wiggle room", is my question.
Well, what does the Bible "say" on this matter, Ananda? :rolleyes: You're a former Christian, correct? Do you remember reading anything in the Bible, or more specifically in the New Testament, that would tell us precisely how we all need to adhere to "correct Christian doctrine" or as to just how "correct" it has to be?
 
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Dave-W

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There must still be a degree in that relation. Is belief in and a relationship with the Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas sufficient?
Unknown.
 
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ananda

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You either believe that he atoned for your sins , was God and rose from the dead or not.
There is no 99% or 98% .
You don't even have to read the Bible to be saved .
It's good to know what to do after you are saved and become a Child of God but not necessary for salvation because it's not of works .
Ephesians 2:8-9
Galatians 2:16
OK, other things the common Bible lists, like repentance (Luke 13:3), confession of Jesus before men (Rom 10:9), doing God's will (Mat 7:21, 1John 2:17, etc.), etc. are unnecessary for salvation, for you?
 
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ananda

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Well, what does the Bible "say" on this matter, Ananda? :rolleyes: You're a former Christian, correct? Do you remember reading anything in the Bible, or more specifically the New Testament, that would tell us precisely how we all need to adhere to "correct Christian doctrine" or as to just how "correct" it has to be?
Yes, I am a former Christian, and I do remember reading the Bible, along with other "apocryphal" works on Jesus. I have no idea what "correct Christian doctrine" is, which is why I started this thread - for Christian apologists to defend.
 
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Chinchilla

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OK, other things the common Bible lists, like repentance (Luke 13:3), confession of Jesus before men (Rom 10:9), doing God's will (Mat 7:21, 1John 2:17, etc.), etc. are unnecessary for salvation, for you?

No , God deal differently with different people .
You don't go like Noah to build a boat for 120 years to be saved just as you don't prove your faith to God by attempting to sacrifice your son as Abraham .

Gospel of the Kingdom preached by Christ was for Jews which were promised the Kingdom to inherit .

They rejected thier King and crucify him , God gave them second Chance by preaching to them the Gospel by his Apostles but they rejected them aswell.

Then God called a guy Saul who was crucifying early Christians and made him Apostle to Gentiles , these ungodly pagan nations to provoke God's choosen people- Israel to jelaousy.


Ephesians 3:2-13 King James Version (KJV)
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.


Mystery means something which was not revealed before , it was not revealed by Christ that gentiles will be saved , look what Christ said :

Matthew 10:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.



It was untill Jews rejected thier King .

Romans 11:11
“I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.”

Romans 11:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.


You can't be saved trying to be like Jesus , but you can accept his atonement in your place .
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 ,

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Yes, I am a former Christian, and I do remember reading the Bible, along with other "apocryphal" works on Jesus. I have no idea what "correct Christian doctrine" is, which is why I started this thread - for Christian apologists to defend.

Well, then you know as well as I do that some level of our willingness to believe is influenced by 'who' we're willing to listen to and 'who' we think should be recognized as having the authority for us to seriously listen to. Much of this will not only be formed by our personal tastes for social and emotional aesthetics, but also the ways in which we epistemically approach and understand the world and it's history (i.e. this involves our individual, personal recognition and application of how hermenetics plays a part in our leaning one way or another on this issue).

So, the initial question is, "Who should we listen to the most"? The second question that contributes to our sense of correct doctrine is "Why do we think we should listen to those specific individuals to whom we lend our ears?"
 
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ananda

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No , God deal differently with different people .
You don't go like Noah to build a boat for 120 years to be saved just as you don't prove your faith to God by attempting to sacrifice your son as Abraham .

It was untill Jews rejected thier King .

Romans 11:11
“I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.”

Romans 11:25 King James Version (KJV)
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

You can't be saved trying to be like Jesus , but you can accept his atonement in your place .
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 ,

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day
Thanks for sharing. Do you also believe that "Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." (Thomas 114:3)?
 
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ananda

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Well, then you know as well as I do that some level of our willingness to believe is influenced by 'who' we're willing to listen to and 'who' we think should be recognized as having the authority for us to seriously listen to. Much of this will not only be formed by our personal tastes for social and emotional aesthetics, but also the ways in which we epistemically approach and understand the world and it's history (i.e. this involves our individual, personal recognition and application of how hermenetics plays a part in our leaning one way or another on this issue).

So, the initial question is, "Who should we listen to the most"? The second question that contributes to our sense of correct doctrine is "Why do we think we should listen to those specific individuals to whom we lend our ears?"
I would agree.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I would agree.

Yes, on this I very much think we do agree. What we probably don't agree on is on 'who' those persons are to whom we should listen the most in considering what it means to adopt Christianity as our personal religious focal point in life. You have your ideas, and I think that generally speaking---and without getting into all of the Ehrman type nitty gritty about it all---that the New Testament writers are the ones to listen to 'most.' The rest that pertains to EXACTLY how we understand what the New Testament writers fully meant is, as you also know, up for discussion. ;)
 
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Chinchilla

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Thanks for sharing. Do you also believe that "Every woman who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven." (Thomas 114:3)?

There are four gospels , Matthew , Mark , Luke ,John . The rest are people making thier own false letters .
How to validate a gospel/book of NT ? It must agree with OT .
 
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ananda

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Yes, on this I very much think we do agree. What we probably don't agree on is on 'who' those persons are to whom we should listen the most in considering what it means to adopt Christianity as our personal religious focal point in life. You have your ideas, and I think that generally speaking---and without getting into all of the Ehrman type nitty gritty about it all---that the New Testament writers are the ones to listen to 'most.' The rest that pertains to EXACTLY how we understand what the New Testament writers fully meant is, as you also know, up for discussion. ;)
... and that is essentially part of my question in this thread.
 
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