Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?

[Dave L]

I think I get where you're coming from, but i just cant get past the fact that Jesus says
'repent and believe'
not
'believe and repent'
so yeah .. that's kinda where I have to go with Jesus on the order of things.

Who was his audience? Mostly saved Jews who needed to repent from the Old Covenant and embrace the New.

 

[StillGods]

Who was his audience? Mostly saved Jews who needed to repent from the Old Covenant and embrace the New.

I dont think the Jews were saved, many rejected Jesus as the Messiah back then, and many still do today.

 

[Dave L]

I dont think the Jews were saved, many rejected Jesus as the Messiah back then, and many still do today.

Who did he preach to and heal? The saved. Over 3000 born again Jews converted to the New Covenant at Pentecost. Over 5000 a couple of days later.

 

[StillGods]

Who did he preach to and heal? The saved. Over 3000 born again Jews converted to the New Covenant at Pentecost. Over 5000 a couple of days later.

They were not saved until they repented.
just like the Jews today are not saved until they Repent and believe (in that order).
Peter preached the same message on his missionary journeys, to repent, and again same deal, those people were not saved until they repented.

 

[Dave L]

They were not saved until they repented.
just like the Jews today are not saved until they Repent and believe (in that order).
Peter preached the same message on his missionary journeys, to repent, and again same deal, those people were not saved until they repented.

They were saved Jews repenting from Judaism, a false idol-worshipping religion.

 

[StillGods]

They were saved Jews repenting from Judaism, a false idol-worshipping religion.

just because you're Jewish doesnt make you saved...I have Jewish blood, trust me that doesnt make a person saved. Repenting and turning to Jesus does though.

 

[mlepfitjw]

just because you're Jewish doesnt make you saved...I have Jewish blood, trust me that doesnt make a person saved. Repenting and turning to Jesus does though.

Lol back in the day if you were not a jew you couldn't even get into the temple.

Shoot if anything Jesus Christ has redeemed all people by paying for their sin on the cross. Before they ever start believing the sin of those people have been paid for.

Many say it's only ACTIVATED when they believe... though all sin has been paid for at one moment at the death on the cross, IE: The atonement of sins goes out to all. All sins are paid for regardless if a person has believed yet or not, though believing just allows a person to become transformed by the spirit within them as they start believing.

Whenever that is.

My sins were paid for before I ever understood who GOd or Jesus Christ was .

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

NEITHER. You believe that you ARE saved. God calls his children to be fully persuaded by the evidence (the bible) that you are saved and have eternal life right now and forever... That's why you have to renew your mind with the gospel for the sanctification process. Part of that is KNOWING who you are in Christ and that you, as a child of God, can never lose salvation. Part of faith is having faith in his promises, his promises include that he will never leave you nor forsake you and that no one will snatch you out of his hand, that's how you grow. If you don't have that down you don't even have the gospel down, and you must start from scratch. Any single work you do that adds to the gospel corrupts it and it is considered accursed. You must trust that the finished work of Jesus Christ, his bloodshed on the cross for your sins, is sufficient to give you eternal life.

 

[Nova2216]

Jesus said; “Those who believe in the Son have eternal life, but those who do not obey the Son will never have life. God’s anger stays on them.” John 3:36 (NCV)

Eternal life is without beginning or end, just as God is eternal. This would mean whom he regenerates with his Spirit was saved eternally in God's mind and plan.

“And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?” John 11:26 (KJV 1900)

So is believing in Christ God's fruit of salvation that tells you he saved you? Or is it a law you must obey in the flesh to earn salvation?

One must be "in Christ" to be saved (2Tim. 2:10).

... that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

How does one get into Christ? (Rom. 6:3,4) (Gal. 3:27) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mark 16:16).

Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

Search for when ones sins are forgiven and you will know when one is saved.


(Acts 22:16) Paul's conversion

1. Arise
2. Be Baptized (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
3. Wash Away Your Sins
4. Calling on the Lord

Did Paul come to baptism thinking that his sins were "ALREADY" forgiven?

OR

Did Paul come to baptism thinking he "NEEDED" to have his sins forgiven?


Read more here.
Mission Printing Home Page



Thanks

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

One must be "in Christ" to be saved (2Tim. 2:10).

... that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus.

How does one get into Christ? (Rom. 6:3,4) (Gal. 3:27) (1Peter 3:20,21) (Mark 16:16).

Baptized into Christ (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40 ; 16:30-34 ; 22:16).

Search for when ones sins are forgiven and you will know when one is saved.


(Acts 22:16) Paul's conversion

1. Arise
2. Be Baptized (Acts 8:5,12,13,26-40)
3. Wash Away Your Sins
4. Calling on the Lord

Did Paul come to baptism thinking that his sins were "ALREADY" forgiven?

OR

Did Paul come to baptism thinking he "NEEDED" to have his sins forgiven?


Read more here.
Mission Printing Home Page



Thanks

All sins were already paid for on the cross 2000 years ago. But you don't receive the gift until accepting it by faith. So you actually have to believe it. It sounds like semantics, but it changes the nature of the beauty of the gospel when you say you have to do something to be forgiven (your works of faith), rather than you simply receive the gift by believing that the forgiveness that was already there on the cross 2000 years ago, for not just your sins, but the sins of the whole world.

 

[Nova2216]

All sins were already paid for on the cross 2000 years ago. But you don't receive the gift until accepting it by faith. So you actually have to believe it. It sounds like semantics, but it changes the nature of the beauty of the gospel when you say you have to do something to be forgiven (your works of faith), rather than you simply receive the gift by believing that the forgiveness that was already there on the cross 2000 years ago, for not just your sins, but the sins of the whole world.

Was Paul's sins forgiven before or after baptism according to (Acts 22:16)?

Forget what you have been taught and go with what the bible says. (1Peter 4:11)

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

Was Paul's sins forgiven before or after baptism according to (Acts 22:16)?

Forget what you have been taught and go with what the bible says. (1Peter 4:11)

When you say baptism, are you referring to water baptism? Or baptism of the Holy Spirit? No one was ever saved by water baptism nor anyone can ever be saved by it. That's simply a shadow/ritual done depicting the death, burial, and ressurection of Christ.

 

[Nova2216]

All sins were already paid for on the cross 2000 years ago. But you don't receive the gift until accepting it by faith. So you actually have to believe it. It sounds like semantics, but it changes the nature of the beauty of the gospel when you say you have to do something to be forgiven (your works of faith), rather than you simply receive the gift by believing that the forgiveness that was already there on the cross 2000 years ago, for not just your sins, but the sins of the whole world.

Must I confess and repent to be saved?

 

[Nova2216]

When you say baptism, are you referring to water baptism? Or baptism of the Holy Spirit? No one was ever saved by water baptism nor anyone can ever be saved by it. That's simply a shadow/ritual done depicting the death, burial, and ressurection of Christ.[/QUOTE

Water is mentioned in (1Peter 3:20,21) along with these words.

Baptism doth now also save us

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

Must I confess and repent to be saved?

If by repent you mean changing your mind to believe on Christ for remission of sins then yeah.

Acts 16:30-31

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

^^That's referring to the days of Noah, the protection from the flood. Noah and his family were saved from the flood.

Water baptism is a work and it cannot save anyone. Only the work of Christ on the cross saves. None of your works can save you!

 

[Nova2216]

When you say baptism, are you referring to water baptism? Or baptism of the Holy Spirit? No one was ever saved by water baptism nor anyone can ever be saved by it. That's simply a shadow/ritual done depicting the death, burial, and ressurection of Christ.

There is only one baptism which saves (Eph. 4:5).

So pick one.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

How many Lords are there?

 

[Justified_By_Christ_Alone]

There is only one baptism which saves (Eph. 4:5).

So pick one.

Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

How many Lords are there?

According to this, there is more than just water baptism...

Matthew 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

 

[Nova2216]

If by repent you mean changing your mind to believe on Christ for remission of sins then yeah.

Acts 16:30-31

30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Why not read the rest of the story?

(Acts 16:30-34)

Why was the jailer out at midnight, in the dark looking for water to be baptized in?

Here is your bible answer (1Peter 3:21) (Mark 16:16) (Acts 22:16).

 

[Nova2216]

According to this, there is more than just water baptism...

Matthew 3:11
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Nothing alone saves.