Are you prejudice towards a certain Christian group?

[Always in His Presence]

If a man using the pulpit to raise money for the kingdom, and then keeps half of it, and makes much of how much he does with the other half, how much different is this from Ananias and Saphira?

Gideon

Here is where the argument falls apart.

What about Joel, who takes Zero, nothing, not a penny of what "he raises".

Why is this being ignored?

What about the other 10, who do take a salary, why are they not spoken of?

Are you getting this yet?

 

[gideons300]

Why is a man who sees dolls coming to life, pulls amimal parts out of people, sees some infants as demons a true man of God

And a man who has raised up countless thousands of people, who funds feeding programs, missions and out reaches on a global level, who takes no salary from the ministry a bad guy?

But there are at least 10 others at the same level, who are taking salaries from their ministry and they are ignored?

Am I the only one seeing this?

No, I see it too, and they are all in error. They have correct words, some of them, but there is a disconnect between what they say and what they do.

Les we forget, there will be many who will say "Lord, Lord, have we not...." and He will answer them, saying:

"Why do you call me 'Lord, Lord', and not DO the things i have commanded you. Depart from me, for I do not know you."

Gids

 

[Always in His Presence]

On what knowledge are you making such accusations? Do you have knowledge that any of these pastors are doing what you are accusing them of?

How do you know? How many of any of their books have you read? How many times have you sat under any of these individuals teaching or preaching.

I've looked a bit and can't find what they personally give or keep etc.

You know something I dont.

 

[gideons300]

Here is where the argument falls apart.

What about Joel, who takes Zero, nothing, not a penny of what "he raises".

Why is this being ignored?

What about the other 10, who do take a salary, why are they not spoken of?

Are you getting this yet?

Whether it is salary or sales of merchandise, whose money is it, Gods or Joel's? Do you think it admirable that he does this? I think it is a sad thing that some cannot see the disconnect to the warnings of the scriptures.

Gids

 

[gideons300]

On what knowledge are you making such accusations? Do you have knowledge that any of these pastors are doing what you are accusing them of?

How do you know? How many of any of their books have you read? How many times have you sat under any of these individuals teaching or preaching.

I've looked a bit and can't find what they personally give or keep etc.

You know something I dont.

Do you not remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus? The rich man had the power to help and did nothing. In the end, which one was comforted?

 

[gideons300]

On what knowledge are you making such accusations? Do you have knowledge that any of these pastors are doing what you are accusing them of?

How do you know? How many of any of their books have you read? How many times have you sat under any of these individuals teaching or preaching.

I've looked a bit and can't find what they personally give or keep etc.

You know something I dont.

Profiting off of the ministry for personal gain? Yes, I have such knowledge, as do any with eyes or ears. No matter how one tries to make it right, it is wrong, plain and simple. These are no different from the money changers and sellers of doves in the temple. And what did Jesus do?

No matter how anyone tries to spin this, it is clear to any who looks with an honest heart, in light of what the Bible plainly says, that using God to profit personally, over and above the sheep being ministered to, is sin.

Blessings,

Gideon

Gideon

 

[Always in His Presence]

Are you saying someone cannot be wealthy and serve God?

How do you know these men are covetous? Does just the fact they have money make the wrong?

 

[Always in His Presence]

Gids, you boast on the man who had such great faith in keeping an orphanage open and supplied. Glory to God.

As far as I know Joel Kees in the neighborhood of 25 orphanages open and supplied along with all the other things his ministry does globally. But because he has wealth you find fault? Doesn't make sence

 

[Tenebrae]

I'm prejudiced towards people who make a load of money off the back of emotional manipulation of their followers and all manner of dodgy double dipping

Its present in some churches today "give to the sacrifical offering and god will give everything you want" "if you dont tithe god cant bless you" etc. Funnily enough there has been many times where I have chosen not to tithe however yet God still continued to bless me despite my no tithing

I recall being asked why my tithe had dropped for a week. It had dropped because I was away sick that week and had to use leave without pay. There was no "gosh, I hope you are feeling better"

 

[gideons300]

Are you saying someone cannot be wealthy and serve God?

How do you know these men are covetous? Does just the fact they have money make the wrong?

If they made their money by their own efforts in a regular job, it is between them and God, But anyone who is a minister of the Lord, getting rich because of the ministry, that is going after filthy lucre. Does it really matter whether it is a salary or gifts given in exchange for merchandise? Can you imagine Paul selling his revelations from God for money? Not the Paul I know.

Do you not see? These men are to be examples to the flock as their lives are a testimony to others as to what is truly of value and what is not. Is it any wonder the world sees this and calls it hypocrisy? In this the children of darkness are wiser than the children of light.

We are told as followers of Christ to "love not the world, neither the things that are in the world, for all that is in the world, the lusts of the flesh, the lusts of the eyes and the pride of life, is not of the Father." Why do we look for loopholes to make it seem acceptable? It is dishonorable and sinful, and jades those in the world to even seek the God we love.

How exactly can we spin this any other way? Is it not clear? It is indeed clear, but some, who covet such things as money can buy, have pierced themselves through with many sorrows in departing fro the faith.

Men who sin in the pulpit will receive greater condemnation. To whom much is given, much is required. Jesus told us how hard it is for a rich man to inherit the kingdom of God, harder than for a camel to go through the eye of a needle. Jesus said clearly "Lay not up for yourselves treasure on earth, where moth can corrupt and thieves break in and steal. How can we ignore this warning? Why would anyone risk losing eternal riches for that which satisfies not? The time to find out it was sinful is not on the final day but right now.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Messy]

Are you saying someone cannot be wealthy and serve God?

How do you know these men are covetous? Does just the fact they have money make the wrong?

I don't believe any pastor who is wealthy is wrong. Money is not the root of all evil, love of money is, as long as they don't get wealthy from the tithings I don't think it's wrong. Some are called to make money in business and give, but I believe we should pray for those who keep the tithings for themselves, since I saw a very disturbing NDE of someone.
We can all look at those millionair preachers with a private jet, but compared to an African I'm extremely wealthy and a car is luxury. I can take a bike or a bus and no tv and give the money to the Africans. I love what Smith Wigglesworth did. He worked as a plumber 60 hours a week next to his job as a preacher to feed the poor.
1 Timothy 6
(the instruction is not to sell everything like the rich guy)
Instructions to the Rich
Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.[bless and do not curse]18[bless and do not curse]"Let them"[bless and do not curse]do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share,[bless and do not curse]19[bless and do not curse]storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

And He warned us of believing we have the ability to know who deserves to be called names...

Matthew 5:22 (KJV)
22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, (worthless one) shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Romans 14:4 (KJV)
4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

I tend to think its wise to follow Mathew 5:22 in all circumstances. As Christ said, "give and it will be given back to you", and he was talking about judgement of others. Also, James seems to put much value on guarding our tongue.

 

[gideons300]

Gids, you boast on the man who had such great faith in keeping an orphanage open and supplied. Glory to God.

As far as I know Joel Kees in the neighborhood of 25 orphanages open and supplied along with all the other things his ministry does globally. But because he has wealth you find fault? Doesn't make sence

The difference is quite obvious, George Mueller worked at the orphanage, lived like they did, ate what they ate. Joel goes home to his gated community and eats filet mignon. I doubt if that is what the orphans eat.

Spin away, but you cannot make this acceptable. The scriptures are crying out but some refuse to listen. Why? They love money and stuff. Simple.

Gids

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Are you saying someone cannot be wealthy and serve God?

How do you know these men are covetous? Does just the fact they have money make the wrong?

Christ said not to store wealth on earth but in heaven. Paul said that we should be content with food and clothing. James said that the poor are chosen to be rich in faith and heirs to the kingdom. James doesn't seem to speak highly of rich men either, he says that their wealth will be a testimony against them.

I have only one question, why don't these folks just teach and follow Christs command? He says not to store wealth on earth, so why not just teach and follow that? It seems pretty clear and simple. Why not just teach and follow that?

 

[gideons300]

I tend to think its wise to follow Mathew 5:22 in all circumstances. As Christ said, "give and it will be given back to you", and he was talking about judgement of others. Also, James seems to put much value on guarding our tongue.

Much misunderstanding is on the place judgment is to have in the church. We are told to not judge those outside the church, but inside, we are to judge righteous judgment according to what God has told us.

How are we to choose elders according to the scriptures as to who qualifies, unless we look at their lives and how they are living the gospel out for all to see. This is doubly true concerning ministers.

Blessings,

Gideon

 

[Messy]

Much misunderstanding is on the place judgment is to have in the church. We are told to not judge those outside the church, but inside, we are to judge righteous judgment according to what God has told us.

How are we to choose elders according to the scriptures as to who qualifies, unless we look at their lives and how they are living the gospel out for all to see. This is doubly true concerning ministers.

Blessings,

Gideon

I think Heidi Baker eats better than the orphans too, so do I and all of us, but still she feeds them, I don't.

 

[Restoresmysoul]

I don't believe any pastor who is wealthy is wrong. Money is not the root of all evil, love of money is, as long as they don't get wealthy from the tithings I don't think it's wrong. Some are called to make money in business and give, but I believe we should pray for those who keep the tithings for themselves, since I saw a very disturbing NDE of someone.
We can all look at those millionair preachers with a private jet, but compared to an African I'm extremely wealthy and a car is luxury. I can take a bike or a bus and no tv and give the money to the Africans. I love what Smith Wigglesworth did. He worked as a plumber 60 hours a week next to his job as a preacher to feed the poor.
1 Timothy 6
(the instruction is not to sell everything like the rich guy)
Instructions to the Rich
Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty, nor to trust in uncertain riches but in the living God, who gives us richly all things to enjoy.[bless and do not curse]18[bless and do not curse]"Let them"[bless and do not curse]do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to give, willing to share,[bless and do not curse]19[bless and do not curse]storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Here is my fallible opinion. I think that if we truly study and follow the words of Christ and His apostles then we would not want to be rich, instead we would want to flee from that desire. And if we truly were blessed with wealth we would be willing and ready to give it all to those who are in need, we wouldn't have any room in our heart for storing personal wealth. We wouldn't want a mansion or luxury cars, but instead would want to lift others up with our fortune. Not to mention, if a preacher is rich how then can he preach the words of Christ who says not to store wealth on earth?

 

[Restoresmysoul]

Much misunderstanding is on the place judgment is to have in the church. We are told to not judge those outside the church, but inside, we are to judge righteous judgment according to what God has told us.

How are we to choose elders according to the scriptures as to who qualifies, unless we look at their lives and how they are living the gospel out for all to see. This is doubly true concerning ministers.

Blessings,



Gideon

I was referring to using words like fool.. And i was also suggesting that i would feel comfortable allowing others to do that judging, for the most part. I just feel lead to watch my tongue. I don't disagree however that the Church must judge its own.


(sorry, i accidentally borrowed your font style, its because i accidentally wrote me re above the quotation marks and it copied your font, i just copy pasted it below after i noticed my error.)

 

[gideons300]

I was referring to using words like fool.. And i was also suggesting that i would feel comfortable allowing others to do that judging, for the most part. I just feel lead to watch my tongue. I don't disagree however that the Church must judge its own.


(sorry, i accidentally borrowed your font style, its because i accidentally wrote me re above the quotation marks and it copied your font, i just copy pasted it below after i noticed my error.)

LOL, "my font style"? Well, such as I have, give I thee. By the way, you are posting some great things.

Blessings,

Gids

 

[Chris12]

Gids, you boast on the man who had such great faith in keeping an orphanage open and supplied. Glory to God.

As far as I know Joel Kees in the neighborhood of 25 orphanages open and supplied along with all the other things his ministry does globally. But because he has wealth you find fault? Doesn't make sence

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica][FONT=Times New Roman, Arial] Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money; Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, [/FONT][/FONT]

So the disciples, each in accordance with his financial ability, decided to send relief to the brothers living in Judea.

^^^ according their their means = not money that they owed to anyone else...

Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.



LOVE is the tithe. Giving out of our wealth, what we have left after any debt is taken care of... that is just part of love.

And back then, was for the support of other Christians = specific people without means of their own at that time. You don't have to give to these men...