are you doublethinkers?

[BloodFire]

ok for those who dont know doublethink... its by this guy who made a book called nineteen eighty four... its the belief in 2 contradictory things!

let me list what imean

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person
2. all loving God and hell
3. all knowing God and free will
4. all knowing God and the garden of Eden
5. Jesus being God and the Son of God
6. the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son
7. all powerful God and Satan
8. all loving God and suffering
9. only right religion bt so many denominations
10. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

surely these things contradict each other??? with all these in mind.. are you doublethinkers? do you people believe in contradicotry things which dont go together well?

 

[heron]

Ha ha, you have just listed the ten most popular topics on this subforum.

 

[tapero]

ok for those who dont know doublethink... its by this guy who made a book called nineteen eighty four... its the belief in 2 contradictory things!

let me list what imean

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person

It is truth, not doublespeak. God is One. There is the Father, Son, and Spirit, all are One. One God.

1. all loving God and hell

Don't grasp it all, but do know that God is just, fair, pure, good, never does evil, never does wrong, etc.

1. all knowing God and free will

This is somethng I can't explain to you,not because I don't understand, but it's to do with the rules, so I'll drop it.

1. all knowing God and the garden of Eden

What didn't He know about the garden? I don't see where He missed anything.

1. Jesus being God and the Son of God

This is truth, we accept this by faith and thru the Word of God. It is a difficult concept.

1. the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son

I've never seen anything like this in the bible. Except for where Jesus says I and the Father are One. Otherwise, I can't think of any reference where the Father is considered the Son.

1. all powerful God and Satan

God is all powerful..

satan has demonic warfare, yet he is also partially restrained at this point in time. Later he will be unrestrained, he now seeks permission from God for all, so in that shows he is restrained, he will one day, be unrestrained and come against the Holy City, and will lose, and cast in hell forever.

1. all loving God and suffering

God never intended us to suffer in any way. It started with satan, the fall of man, etc. Suffering is in the world because evil and sin are in the world. God does not cause suffering, yet man brings on suffering himself sometimes such as if i smoke i may get cancer, but God doesn't zap people and say hey your gonna suffer.

only right religion bt so many denominations

Praise to God we have so many denominations, for there are many wonderful unique souls, with varying personalities and needs,and God in His grace allows us these many different denominations, and though their is division, God never asked for that, men are sinful, so in their pride may proclaim certain things, but God does not see pride as a good thing, since pride was the fall of the devil. If God wanted all men to think and have one grasp of the bible, he would've made robots, but he gave us each a mind, and understanding, leads some to certain churches, others to others, etc.

1. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

Jesus is fully God and fully man. God the Father is Spirit, as is the Holy Spirit.
surely these things contradict each other??? with all these in mind.. are you doublethinkers? do you people believe in contradicotry things which dont go together well?

Blessings,
tapero

 

[MelissaShae]

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person

God is the father, son and Holy Ghost/Spirit. He is everything!

2. all loving God and hell

God kicked Satan out of Heaven to hell. God is the ruler of Heaven and Earth and Satan's domain is hell.
God is all loving but if you don't love him then you will not be with him for eternity.

3. all knowing God and free will

Okay now this can go back to Genisis and when Adam and Eve disobeyed God. God told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree of good and evil and they listened to the serpent which could be compared to free will in this time. So it is our free will to seek God because he has already shown himself to us.

4. all knowing God and the garden of Eden
not sure why this is a contradiction but see above answer above

5. Jesus being God and the Son of God

Isaiah 43:3, "For I am the LORD, your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior


7. all powerful God and Satan

And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
(Rev. 12:7-9 NIV)

8. all loving God and suffering

God does not make us suffer and does not want us to suffer but Satan does. God is not the reason for suffering, people always blame God for all the suffering in the world, when he has given us the answers to end our suffering in His word. Satan causes suffering.

9. only right religion bt so many denominations

many of these denominations are christian based and each one focuses on different aspects of christianity

10. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

God is more than just one thing. He is God, Jesus and man.

I don't see it as a contradiction but perhaps a lack of understanding and that is where Satan gets us. He changes God's word and makes it seem wrong or that it is contradicting when in fact it is not.

 

[BloodFire]

• 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person

if God is one.. then there wouldn't be three. unless they were manifestations, but that's modalism.

• all loving God and hell

an all loving God wouldn't even have a hell... even if it is a state of mind

• all knowing God and free will

if God is all knowing then there is no free will because He knows what we are doing.. and He also knows we are going to hell.. and its not our fault.. so God is not all loving

• all knowing God and the garden of Eden

if God knew everything then why bother letting people go to paradise only to be kicked out of it?

• Jesus being God and the Son of God

you cannot be your own father... God is not the author of confusion. being your own son and father is confusing, so it cant be from God.

• the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son

see above.

• all powerful God and Satan

an all powerful God wouldnt have an adversary.. he wouldnt even have made Satan if that was the case...

• all loving God and suffering

an all loving god or all powerful God wouldnt have suffering.. sin isnt an excuse if God is all knowing and all loving... if we sin then God can't blame us. we are imperfect creations and suffering because of that does not seem fair.

• only right religion bt so many denominations

and yet Mormonism and Jehovahs Witnesses and Oneness Pentecostals and Uniterian Universalists is wrong... yet theres lots of different denominations. why cant they focus on all aspects of Christianity?

• fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

mathematical rules? God is not the author of confusion, and being 100% of something and 100% of something else is not mathematically possible, is it? wouldnt it mean Jesus was 50-50?

 

[aiki]

If you're looking to have everything about an infinite God reconciled completely to your satisfaction, well, its not gonna' happen. He's not just some mutant, super-powered human, like so many of the gods of other religions seem to be. The God of the Bible is unapologetically infinite and mysterious at times. As a result, His nature and conduct can sometimes be baffling to us. The God of the Bible has given us some info. -- the stuff we need to know about Him that's really important to our getting along -- but there's a whole lot more that we just can't get our finite, fallible heads around.

1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person

-- This is one of those mysteries-of-God things. As the reality of the Trinity indicates, God doesn't exist within our limits.

all loving God and hell

-- I'm still not sure what people mean when they describe God as "all-loving". He is loving, yes, but the Bible also describes Him as holy, just, jealous, wrathful, etc. He isn't only loving.

all knowing God and free will

-- I don't see a problem with God knowing everything and our having free will. This arrangement seems to be working....

all knowing God and the garden of Eden

-- Adam and Eve weren't puppets. The ability and opportunity to choose not to obey God was necessary to making them more than just puppets.

Jesus being God and the Son of God

-- a matter of title, not nature.

the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son

-- they share the same nature, tho' hold different titles.

all powerful God and Satan

-- so, what's the contradiction here?

all loving God and suffering

-- Here's that "all-loving" thing again. God didn't create the world with the suffering it now experiences in it. The suffering in this world is humanity's contribution to His creation.

only right religion bt so many denominations

-- In large part, denominations are the consequence of heritage, not doctrine. Many Baptists in Canada have Swedish roots. Mennonites have German roots. And so on. There is much more in common among the fundamental doctrines of the various evangelical Christian denominations than differences.

Oops! Gotta' go! I'll finish this later.

Peace to you.

 

[bunced]

Now, I know I'm hardly the most enlightened person here, no the most intelligent, and I will openly admit I would find it hard to satisfactorily answer many of your questions, and as I wouldn't be happy fobbing you off with some half-baked responses, I will kinda only do one or two that I am able to deal with

1) 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person
An egg contains three parts - the shell, the yolk and the egg white. Now each one of these parts have very different characteristics - the shell is tough and full of calcium, and is designed to be a protective shell; the yolk is the food source for the developing chick; the white protects the yolk, and is an additional source of nutrients for the chick. However, despite the fact that they are all very different to each other, they are still very much still all part of an egg.


1) only right religion bt so many denominations
Another analogy, I take no credit for this, as it's a popular philosophical argument. 4 blind men are wondering through the jungle when they come upon an elephant. Since the men have never encountered an elephant, they grope about, seeking to understand and describe this new phenomenon. One grasps the trunk and concludes it is a snake. Another explores one of the elephant's legs and describes it as a tree. A third finds the elephant's tail and announces that it is a rope. And the fourth blind man, after discovering the elephant's side, concludes that it is, after all, a wall. Each in his blindness is describing the same thing: an elephant. Yet each describes the same thing in a radically different way. It's like that with different denominations - they are both describing the same God, just with different points of view.



Personally, I think this is one of the strongest and most beautiful things about the Christian faith. Though I'm a Baptist, and supposedly a "happy-clappy" Christian who should be always looking for new things in Charismatic worship, I also take great pleasure from the structure presented by more orthodox expressions of Christianity such as the Catholic offices and times of silence in Anglican traditions, and also like the conflict resolution, reconciliation and pacifism presented by groups like Quakers and Mennonites - then again, I never was very good at doing what I was told.

I hope somehow this post has been useful - I'm sorry I am not more able to answer your questions, but there are other people who are probably better at doing it than me!

For the record - I think 1984 is a really intriguing book, and it is sometimes disturbing to reflect on how many of Orwell's predictions have come true - CCTV surveillance anyone?

 

[BigNorsk]

ok for those who dont know doublethink... its by this guy who made a book called nineteen eighty four... its the belief in 2 contradictory things!

let me list what imean

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person
2. all loving God and hell
3. all knowing God and free will
4. all knowing God and the garden of Eden
5. Jesus being God and the Son of God
6. the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son
7. all powerful God and Satan
8. all loving God and suffering
9. only right religion bt so many denominations
10. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

surely these things contradict each other??? with all these in mind.. are you doublethinkers? do you people believe in contradicotry things which dont go together well?

1. That's not a contradiction at all, the problem is that the word person has really drifted a bit over the years and you can't here "person" without thinking "separate person".

The root meaning comes from persona. A persona was the mask a Roman actor wore to be a character, it was not unusual for one actor to be several characters in the same play simply by switching masks, the actor could even have a conversation with himself. So you see the base meaning isn't the actor the essence behind the masks but the masks.

Of course the difference between that actor and God is God is all three at the same time, he doesn't switch masks. Which would be modalism.

So no contradiction, but it's a difficult description to grasp due to how people now take person compared to how the word was used many years ago.

2. God's love is shown by the fact that he took our punishment and paid for our sins, miraculously, impossibly saving us from that which awaits. Sin cannot be in God's presence so we don't know much about the lake of fire, I suppose that could even be figurative speech but what we know for sure is it will be great anguish being totally and finally cut off from God. All of course by our own choice.

3. We don't have free will per se. If that was the case we could just decide to save ourselves and do it. A better term would be free won't. God doesn't force himself on us, we have the ability to resist and deny. That' the way we were made. Maybe God didn't want just a bunch of robots.

4. See 3, free won't, the ability to reject in action.

5. Only seems to be a contradiction, gets back to the Trinity. His sonship has to do with his relation within the godhead. Also, one could argue today, it has to do with his humanity. But he's always been God and always been the Son.

6. They are one. It only seems distant to us. It was really something easier to grasp in Middle East cultures. The Son spoke with the authority of the Father. To get past the human relationships where one speaks for the other and to God, it's back once more to the Trinity.

7. Back to free won't again. God didn't make the angels to be robots either. I suppose it isn't very glorifying to be praised by something that can't do otherwise. Having power is not the same as always using it immediately.

Let's say you can throw a baseball really far. Do you then only do so, if I'm standing 10 feet from you do you throw the ball as if I was 200 feet? Of course not. God has chosen not to use all his power right at this time so that as many as can be saved will. When there are no more left to enter in, then he will show his ultimate power.

8. Suffering often produces good. Do you consider your doctor evil if he hurts you doing surgery to save your life? The real risk factors in this life are riches, power, looks and so on, then the tendency is to turn from God and trust them. Much better to be poor, or sick or not liked by everyone and saved.

9. Hard to figure that one myself. But the answer is rather basic. Some divisions are simply matters of convenience or culture. We see that a lot in the US where basically one culture came with one denomination and another with another. Or it has to do with how people add to scripture. Either they pick some people as the authority or they add in some way to the bible. If you get down to only the bible, which I believe is the right thing to do, then there are only a handful.

10. Yep, you got that one right. In Jesus, God is consubstantial with man.

Marv

 

[PhilosopherD]

ok for those who dont know doublethink... its by this guy who made a book called nineteen eighty four... its the belief in 2 contradictory things!

let me list what imean

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person
2. all loving God and hell
3. all knowing God and free will
4. all knowing God and the garden of Eden
5. Jesus being God and the Son of God
6. the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son
7. all powerful God and Satan
8. all loving God and suffering
9. only right religion bt so many denominations
10. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

surely these things contradict each other??? with all these in mind.. are you doublethinkers? do you people believe in contradicotry things which dont go together well?

Actually, George Orwell's notion of 'doublespeak' is not exactly as you portray. Doublespeak has to do more with denying tomorrow what you avow today by way of semantic sophistry.

However, you said "if God is one.. then there wouldn't be three. unless they were manifestations, but that's modalism."

The problem here is that you equivocated. To say that God is one is not to say that He is one in number. Rather, it is to assert that He is unified. God is one = God is unified.

To say that "God is one." is not the same as saying "There is only one God."

 

[ebia]

ok for those who dont know doublethink... its by this guy who made a book called nineteen eighty four... its the belief in 2 contradictory things!

let me list what imean

1. 1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person
2. all loving God and hell
3. all knowing God and free will
4. all knowing God and the garden of Eden
5. Jesus being God and the Son of God
6. the Father... in some distant way.. being the Son
7. all powerful God and Satan
8. all loving God and suffering
9. only right religion bt so many denominations
10. fully God.. fully man.. Jesus (100% + 100% = 100%?)

surely these things contradict each other??? with all these in mind.. are you doublethinkers? do you people believe in contradicotry things which dont go together well?

When you take concepts, language and ideas that work for 'everyday' life, and push them into describing stuff beyond our ordinary experience then you tend to get what, at first glance, looks like paradoxes. This is true whether you are talking theology or nuclear physics.

 

[BelindaP]

Well, light exists as particles and waves. That's a case in nature where one thing exists in two different forms at the same time. There are a lot of other cases in nature that are just like that.

So, it is conceivable that Jesus could be fully man and fully God.

 

[BelindaP]

1 God in 3 persons bt not 3 gods or 3 gods in 1 person

The concept of the Trinity is a hard one to understand and accept. I really struggled with it until I realized that man (who is made in the image of God) is also triune.

We have a physical body, a soul, and a life-spirit. These are inseparable, or else we die.

 

[heron]

Time also has contradictions. How does prophecy exist -- (Judeo-Christian and other) -- allowing people to envision an incident far in advance? Two times appear conceptually in one moment.


Some of these points appear different when you picture God as the one who made everything.

Imagine everything that exists: planets, other solar systems, physiology, our minds, linear time, molecular structure, DNA, natural laws, the objects that people worship, the sun, all the spirits you can name... He designed all that we know, all that we understand.


Where does God rest? We were made in God's image,
so we try to confine Him to a body like ours -- but His presence is everywhere --maybe even in the energy that holds atoms together.

Sometimes I wonder if we will not find out the entire universe rests within a transparent realm of Him... (universe in Orion's Belt) that He is invisible yet visible; immense but able to carry on face-to-face conversations; tangible yet spread out so broadly we don't know where He stops and starts.

I know this sounds flaky. But the One who created science is able to create more than we can imagine.