Are you doing all you can in the endtimes??

[HisdaughterJen]

Do you mind sharing those biblical evidences? I don't recall reading anything about Christ's day on the morning of the 3rd day.

Sure, see my previous post.

Another way to prove it is in regards to the woman in labor, the fulfillment of the New Covenant which is the change from mortal to immortal bodies, and Genesis 6:3 where God declared that fallen flesh would be around for 120 years....which could very well mean 120 Jubilees since that's what God established as a way to count time. (120 x 50 = 6000). That would be 6000 years since the fall of Adam.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also [is] flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Rom 8:22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
Rom 8:23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.


Gal 4:22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
Gal 4:23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
Gal 4:24 These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar.

...

Gal 4:26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.

...

Gal 4:31 Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.




The free woman, the Jerusalem above, is the Kingdom of God, the fulfillment of the New Covenant...and she is about to give birth to her children. (just as we are born again of the Spirit, we will also receive glorified bodies) The giving of the Spirit was a "deposit, guaranteeing what is to come"....and that which is coming is the redemption of our bodies.

Mic 5:3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

...another way to look at it...from Israel's perspective...

Rom 11:25I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in.


Hsa 6:2 After two days he will revive us; (therefore, they are abandoned for 2 days/2000 years)
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Your post seems convincing and you make some points, but your points along with anybody elses are still subjective. If you are correct, praise God, I've been waiting for this moment for all my life, if you are not correct, praise God, I can wait the rest of my life to see my Lord.

YES, praise God!

Add to all of that, the signs of the times, and things are getting interesting.

2Ti 3:1 But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days.
2Ti 3:2 People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self‑control, brutal, not lovers of the good,
2Ti 3:4 treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God–
2Ti 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them.



It's getting harder and harder to be here....just as in the days of Noah and of Lot...all around us is greed, wickedness and perversion.

2Pe 2:5 if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
2Pe 2:6 if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
2Pe 2:8 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)–
2Pe 2:9 if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment

 

[xcrunner71]

I'm not trying to piece apart your posts, but men have been liars, greedy, lovers of themselves, adulterous, boastful, etc. ever since Jesus was here. Look at Rome, look how many christians were slaughtered for their beliefs in Christ. Now those were some perilous times! Heck it can be arguable that Nero Caesar was the antichrist, I'm not using this as a major point, but his name does equal 666 in hebrew, he had his subjects worship him as a god, he killed christians, tried to destroy the church, had the largest kingdom of the world.... ever... even rigged the olympics so he could win every event he was in (extreme pride). Now I don't know about how valid the olympics thing was, my buddy once told me that and I thought I'd bring it up, but he does fit the criteria as the antichrist more than anybody else. I'm not saying he was the antichrist, just saying the end times have been upon the world for a long time, and it's possible these perilous times as well as the nature of mankind have been aweful for a long long time, so who knows how much longer man will be aweful for.

 

[xcrunner71]

I have a random question for you. If we were in the end of the final days, do you believe Jesus is walking this earth as a human now, or do you think his return will be marked by him descending from the sky? I know acts says the Lord will return in the way that he left, but the title in the last book of the bible "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" makes me think he could be a living soul on this earth now, just hasn't had his revelation yet, or his Father doesn't think it's time for him yet.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I'm not trying to piece apart your posts, but men have been liars, greedy, lovers of themselves, adulterous, boastful, etc. ever since Jesus was here. Look at Rome, look how many christians were slaughtered for their beliefs in Christ. Now those were some perilous times! Heck it can be arguable that Nero Caesar was the antichrist, I'm not using this as a major point, but his name does equal 666 in hebrew, he had his subjects worship him as a god, he killed christians, tried to destroy the church, had the largest kingdom of the world.... ever... even rigged the olympics so he could win every event he was in (extreme pride). Now I don't know about how valid the olympics thing was, my buddy once told me that and I thought I'd bring it up, but he does fit the criteria as the antichrist more than anybody else. I'm not saying he was the antichrist, just saying the end times have been upon the world for a long time, and it's possible these perilous times as well as the nature of mankind have been aweful for a long long time, so who knows how much longer man will be aweful for.

Yeah, Nero, Antiochus Epiphanes, Hitler...

But, keep in mind too, that Scripture dictates that Israel would be a nation again, brought back from the dispersion and in their own land when all of the end times stuff goes down. I don't think that was the case when Nero, Antiochus Epiphanes or Hitler was around, right? (I mean, Hitler was in the 30's, Antiochus Epiphanes was BC, Nero was between the death of Christ and the fall of Jerusalem...but doesn't fit the profile completely)

I have a random question for you. If we were in the end of the final days, do you believe Jesus is walking this earth as a human now, or do you think his return will be marked by him descending from the sky? I know acts says the Lord will return in the way that he left, but the title in the last book of the bible "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" makes me think he could be a living soul on this earth now, just hasn't had his revelation yet, or his Father doesn't think it's time for him yet.

Well, let's see what scripture says about it...

Act 3:19 Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Act 3:20 and that he may send the Christ, who has been appointed for you–even Jesus.
Act 3:21 He must remain in heaven until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.




That sort of harkens back to this passage where is Israel is speaking, doesn't it?

Hsa 6:2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.


So, I'd say, stick with the scriptures about Christ's return...that He is in heaven, seated at the right hand of God and that God will send Jesus when it is time to restore everything and Jesus will reign until everything is restored.

 

[xcrunner71]

Can't argue with your last statement. Time to go watch some TV! Take care, thanks for chattin with me.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Can't argue with your last statement. Time to go watch some TV! Take care, thanks for chattin with me.

anytime, brother...

 

[maelstrom]

Wow those are some powerful Scriptures regarding the 6000 years and the final 2000 years before the birth, I'm going to have to write those down!

I've read similar perspectives before. I'm too new to Christianity to have studied the Old Testament in that much depth, but I've been working diligently to learn everything I can that is relevant to eschatology...

I've heard lots of good arguments that put the end in this century. In fact I read one that gave a convincing account of the Second Coming in 2058/2059 (can't remember the exact arguments they gave, but the math was impressive, I'll have to look up the website again). I think it also had to do with the Jubilee years or the years of the Gentiles.

ALL of the prophecy will come to pass. Not just some of the signs will be there--it will all come to pass in a way that fits perfectly with what was prophesied.

The signs are starting to add up pretty quickly these days... Global government is at hand, we can expect economic collapse and massive depopulation of the planet as people starve from the downfall of fiat money, or are killed by diseases or wars or natural disasters or riots.

Technological progress is accelerating and is going to reach a turning point. Read Ray Kurzweil's work about the singularity (The Age of Spiritual Machines, The Singularity is Near). He doesn't have a Christian perspective, but Moore's law of accelerating returns pretty much proves that Revelation is true, in my eyes. We are coming to a close of the age of man; our conceitedness is going to wipe us out, and we'll realize all too late the error of our ways.

It's about time for the age of God. That was His plan all along--Jesus came to Earth, then He left... He left us to ourselves, just to make sure we'd learn our lesson, that we're not capable of doing it by ourselves, that we NEED God. The climax of secular humanism is going to happen soon--those foolish ones who think that man doesn't need God will bring about a total catastrophe on this planet. Man will build up his Tower of Babel like before, but the higher he climbs, the farther he falls when it breaks...

What we can expect to be happening soon (and THEN Jesus will return, but not until after all the prophecies are fulfilled):
- Two Witnesses will show up sometime
- Fall of Babylon
- Beast w/ 10 Horns
- Mass Death

Note that I'm a staunch post-trib, I don't believe in any of that dispensationalist nonsense that's all based on a shaky reading of Daniel 9 (in other words, I think that the last 7 weeks began when Christ's ministry began, the middle was when He was crucified, and the final 3 1/2 years refers to this whole period of tribulation between when Jesus left and when He will come back).

As for what we can do, we should do what Jesus said to do all along... Go and be a light to the world. No we're definitely not doing enough!!! We're not *required* to do good works to receive salvation. But this is pathetic; the Church has made a fool of itself. Thank God for the Two Witnesses who will come along and help the bride get herself ready for the groom.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Wow those are some powerful Scriptures regarding the 6000 years and the final 2000 years before the birth, I'm going to have to write those down!

I've read similar perspectives before. I'm too new to Christianity to have studied the Old Testament in that much depth, but I've been working diligently to learn everything I can that is relevant to eschatology...

I've heard lots of good arguments that put the end in this century. In fact I read one that gave a convincing account of the Second Coming in 2058/2059 (can't remember the exact arguments they gave, but the math was impressive, I'll have to look up the website again). I think it also had to do with the Jubilee years or the years of the Gentiles.

ALL of the prophecy will come to pass. Not just some of the signs will be there--it will all come to pass in a way that fits perfectly with what was prophesied.

The signs are starting to add up pretty quickly these days... Global government is at hand, we can expect economic collapse and massive depopulation of the planet as people starve from the downfall of fiat money, or are killed by diseases or wars or natural disasters or riots.

Technological progress is accelerating and is going to reach a turning point. Read Ray Kurzweil's work about the singularity (The Age of Spiritual Machines, The Singularity is Near). He doesn't have a Christian perspective, but Moore's law of accelerating returns pretty much proves that Revelation is true, in my eyes. We are coming to a close of the age of man; our conceitedness is going to wipe us out, and we'll realize all too late the error of our ways.

It's about time for the age of God. That was His plan all along--Jesus came to Earth, then He left... He left us to ourselves, just to make sure we'd learn our lesson, that we're not capable of doing it by ourselves, that we NEED God. The climax of secular humanism is going to happen soon--those foolish ones who think that man doesn't need God will bring about a total catastrophe on this planet. Man will build up his Tower of Babel like before, but the higher he climbs, the farther he falls when it breaks...

What we can expect to be happening soon (and THEN Jesus will return, but not until after all the prophecies are fulfilled):
- Two Witnesses will show up sometime
- Fall of Babylon
- Beast w/ 10 Horns
- Mass Death

Note that I'm a staunch post-trib, I don't believe in any of that dispensationalist nonsense that's all based on a shaky reading of Daniel 9 (in other words, I think that the last 7 weeks began when Christ's ministry began, the middle was when He was crucified, and the final 3 1/2 years refers to this whole period of tribulation between when Jesus left and when He will come back).

As for what we can do, we should do what Jesus said to do all along... Go and be a light to the world. No we're definitely not doing enough!!! We're not *required* to do good works to receive salvation. But this is pathetic; the Church has made a fool of itself. Thank God for the Two Witnesses who will come along and help the bride get herself ready for the groom.

All will be revealed in due time. God will put us where He wants us when He wants us to be there (regardless of our stance on timing), right?

The 70 weeks are for Israel and Jerusalem to complete certain tasks according to Daniel 9:24. One of those tasks is to seal up vision and prophecy.

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

However, Scripture shows that God pours out His Spirit on Israel which includes vision and prophecy at the time that He saves them from the Northern Army invaders (Joel 2, Ezek 38/39).


Eze 39:29 I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD.”



Joe 2:27Then you will know that I am in Israel,
that I am the Lord your God,
and that there is no other;
never again will my people be shamed.
Joe 2:28 “And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.




I mean, let's face it, the two witnesses will be filled with the power and Spirit of God and they will be PROPHESYING!

Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.”
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.
Rev 11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.




So, obviously, the 70 weeks are not yet complete and won't be until Christ physically returns.

Zec 13:4 And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied;

 

[xcrunner71]

Revelation 13.1-18-The two beasts. Chapters 4-5 portrayed god and the lamb, ch 12-13 portray their evil counterparts, the dragon and the beast (satan and rome). 1: the beast is rome. the empire is identified with the emperor nero whose return was popularly expected; his persecution of christians made him a dreaded figure (see ch. 17; compare Dan. 7.1-6). Ten horns: (parthian) kings who conspire with Nero; compare 17.12; Dan. 7.7. Seven heads; seven hills of Rome or seven kings (see 17.9-10). A blashemous name; the divine title claimed by the emperor. 2: on the animals, see dan. 7.4-6. The dragon...conferred...power: i.e. Satan works through the beast. 3: Death blow... wound was healed (see vv.12,14) points to Nero's rumored survival of suicide and return (see 17.8, compare with Jesus in 1.18;5.6).

I have too many bibles laying around my room, I often neglect my Oxford Study Bible which has A LOT to say about the end times. There is a lot more on the false prophet and such and makes some valid arguments. The scary thing about end times prophecy is that we're all waiting around for large 'key' events to take place, when many may have already taken place as I stated earlier.

As for you maelstorm, some interesting stuff in your post, however stay away from web sites and authorship citing specific or possibilities of when the second coming will occurr. When I was young in my faith I immediately jumped to revelation and did similar research (not necessarily looking for a specific date for the second coming) only to find I was wasting my time. The best place to read about the end times comes from the master Himself, read Matthew 24,25, then you'll understand when the second coming will come.

 

[Carey]

We have been in the last days for 2000 years. I try to be a good neighbor and make the world a better place for the grandkids.

Anyone else think the rapture will be a harder sell when year 4008 rolls around?

That is good you are doing good deeds ,we should all be doing good but eschatologist spreading what thhey know are also doing good.

Well I suspect if eschatologists keep barking what we see happening with global warming and events in Israel as obvious parts of many prophecies being fulfilled.

The rapture as you call it will be an easy sell to some of the Luke warm Christians and unbelievers who have heard and seen prophecies being fulfiflled when these start happening.

I am sure some will come to accept Christ but many it says ...........

Revelations 16 : 21From the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. And they cursed God on account of the plague of hail, because the plague was so terrible.

Luke 21 : 25"There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken

28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near."

Matthew 7 : 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[Bible2]

billwald posted in message #15:

We have been in the last days for 2000 years. I try
to be a good neighbor and make the world a better
place for the grandkids.

Anyone else think the rapture will be a harder sell
when year 4008 rolls around?

We have indeed been in the last days for 2000 years,
for it was said in the first century that "God, who
at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time
past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these
last days spoken unto us by his Son" (Hebrews 1:1-2).

And a "last days" prophecy was fulfilled in the
first century at the outpouring of the Spirit at
Pentecost: "this is that which was spoken by the
prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last
days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit" (Acts
2:16-17).

But how could it have been the "last days" 2000
years ago and still be the "last days" today?

One way would be to look at time from God's point of
view: "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,
and a thousand years as one day" (2 Peter 3:8).

So the "last days" could mean the "last" thousand-year
periods of time of some greater time-period, such as
our entire civilization-cycle, which began with the
creation of Adam roughly around 4,000 B.C.

The "last" thousand-year periods being the "last"
could mean that they're after the midpoint of the
entire time sequence of our civilization-cycle. And
since they began in the first century, after four
previous thousand-year periods, there may be only
three thousand-year periods from the first century
until the end of our civilization-cycle. This would
mean that our civilization-cycle would consist of one
"week" of seven thousand-year "days", beginning
roughly around 4,000 B.C. and ending roughly around
3,000 A.D.

So the year 4008 A.D. may never roll around in our
civilization-cycle. And the subsequent civilization-
cycle, the "new earth" (Revelation 21:1), could
start over regarding its counting of years, so that
the year that it's created will become a new year 1
in that civilization-cycle.

Before the "new earth" is created, Jesus' millennial
reign on this current earth (Revelation 20:4-6, 5:10,
2:26-29) could be the final thousand-year "day" of
our current civilization-cycle. That is, the
millennium could run from roughly 2000 A.D. to
roughly 3000 A.D.

Because the millennium won't begin until after the
second coming (Revelation 19:11-20:6), the second
coming could happen roughly around 2,000 A.D. This
would mean that the second coming, with its attendant
rapture, or gathering together (Matthew 24:29-31;
2 Thessalonians 2:1; 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), could
happen within our lifetime.

 

[Bible2]

xcrunner71 posted in message #16:

Billwald is right in that we've been in the last days
for quite some time.

But the "endtimes" of this thread's title are
different than the "last days", for while the "last
days" started in the first century, Jesus said that
"the end is not yet" (Matthew 24:6). He said that
"the end" wouldn't start until the gospel had reached
every nation (Matthew 24:14), and that "the end"
would include the abomination of desolation (Matthew
24:15) which will done by the Antichrist
(2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:31,36), who will be
destroyed at the second coming of Jesus
(2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20).

xcrunner71 posted in message #16:

There is NO way to determine whether we will witness
Jesus' return or the rise of the antichrist or any of
that. It sort of bugs me when people say we're the
last generation this and that, it's all highly
subjective. Our ego's tell us "look at the signs" and
such, but really it could happen in another thousand
years, three thousand years, whenever. All we can do
is keep our faith and stay on guard.

It's true that we must keep our faith and stay on
guard for anything to happen. But Jesus could have
given us a way to determine whether our generation
will witness the 42-month reign of the Antichrist
(Revelation 13:5) and Jesus' return to destroy him.

Jesus said: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree;
When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth
leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye,
when ye shall see all these things, know that it is
near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This
generation shall not pass, till all these things be
fulfilled" (Matthew 24:32-34).

Here the fig tree could represent Israel: "I saw your
fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree" (Hosea
9:10). The re-budding of the fig tree could represent
the re-establishment of the state of Israel by U.N.
Resolution in November, 1947. The generation that saw
that re-establishment may not pass away until the
reign of the Antichrist and Jesus' return has been
fulfilled. If a generation usually passes away after
70 years -- "The days of our years are threescore
years and ten" (Psalms 90:10) -- then Jesus may need
to return 69 years after the November, 1947
re-establishment of the state of Israel, or in 2016.

And if Jesus will return on the 1,335th day after the
abomination of desolation (Daniel 12:11-12, cf.
Revelation 16:15) marking the beginning of the
Antichrist's 42-month reign, then the abomination of
desolation could happen in 2012. And if the
Antichrist won't commit the abomination of desolation
until two or three years after the beginning of the
seven-year tribulation (Daniel 9:27), then the
tribulation could begin in 2010.

There's a passage in Daniel that could point to these
same dates:

"Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon
thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to
make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for
iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint
the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that
from the going forth of the commandment to restore
and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince
shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks:
the street shall be built again, and the wall, even
in troublous times. And after threescore and two
weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:
and the people of the prince that shall come shall
destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end
thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of
the war desolations are determined. And he shall
confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in
the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice
and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading
of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until
the consummation, and that determined shall be poured
upon the desolate" (Daniel 9:24-27).

Here the Hebrew word translated as "weeks" is derived
from a word which means "to be complete", so that the
"seventy weeks" of the passage could include reference
to an endtime "seventy to be completed", which could
mean seventy years to be completed, from the time of
the U.N.'s November, 1947 endtime commandment to
restore Israel until a returned Jesus has completed
all of the requirements at the beginning of the
passage by the end of the seventieth year.

When the passage says "from the going forth of the
commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the
Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and
threescore and two weeks", this could include the
meaning that Jesus' endtime coming will occur 69 years
after the U.N.'s November, 1947 endtime commandment to
restore Israel, or in 2016.

When the passage says "after threescore and two weeks
shall Messiah be cut off", this could include an
endtime reference to a false Messiah having a treaty
"cut" with him by the Antichrist only 62 years after
the U.N.'s November, 1947 endtime commandment to
restore Israel. Because November is so late in the
year, this treaty could be cut in 2010. Then the
Antichrist could subsequently break this treaty and
commit the abomination of desolation in 2012.

 

[Bible2]

xcrunner71 posted in message #23:

Heck it can be arguable that Nero Caesar was the
antichrist, I'm not using this as a major point, but
his name does equal 666 in hebrew, he had his subjects
worship him as a god, he killed christians, tried to
destroy the church, had the largest kingdom of the
world.... ever...

Does Nero Caesar's name really equal 666 in Hebrew?
That is, can it be shown that the Hebrew spelling
by which it equals 666 was the normal Hebrew spelling
of his name, and not an aberrant spelling resulting
from people intentionally fiddling with it until it
equaled 666?

Nero Caesar wasn't the Antichrist because he never
sat in the Jewish temple and proclaimed himself God
(2 Thessalonians 2:4; Daniel 11:31,36).

Nor did Nero Caesar have a miracle-working False
Prophet (Revelation 19:20) who could call fire down
from heaven (Revelation 13:13), make a speaking
statue of Nero which everyone had to worship
(Revelation 13:15), or make everyone receive Nero's
mark on their forehead or right hand (Revelation
13:16).

Nor did Nero fulfill Daniel 11:21-45, which summarizes
the career of the Antichrist from the point of his
first being given some power until his final attack
on Jerusalem right before the second coming of Jesus
(cf. Zechariah 14:2-4).

Nor was Nero destroyed by the second coming of Jesus
(2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20).

 

[maelstrom]

I don't agree that Revelation was simply about Rome. That's the preterist view, which holds the prophecy already to have been fulfilled, and thus isn't allowed in the eschatology section because we're discussing the future, not the past.

I think Revelation was written well after the Romans destroyed the temple. The term "666" may well refer to Nero, but that may just be John's way of indicating that the Beast will be political in nature.

I think that conditions in the end will be paralleled by conditions at the time of the early church, but on a larger scale... For instance, Rome sat on seven hills, but the Beast will be on all 7 continents

 

[Notrash]

Does Nero Caesar's name really equal 666 in Hebrew?
That is, can it be shown that the Hebrew spelling
by which it equals 666 was the normal Hebrew spelling
of his name, and not an aberrant spelling resulting
from people intentionally fiddling with it until it
equaled 666?

Nero Caesar wasn't the Antichrist because he never
sat in the Jewish temple and proclaimed himself God
(2 Thessalonians 2:4; Daniel 11:31,36).

Nor did Nero Caesar have a miracle-working False
Prophet (Revelation 19:20) who could call fire down
from heaven (Revelation 13:13), make a speaking
statue of Nero which everyone had to worship
(Revelation 13:15), or make everyone receive Nero's
mark on their forehead or right hand (Revelation
13:16).

Nor did Nero fulfill Daniel 11:21-45, which summarizes
the career of the Antichrist from the point of his
first being given some power until his final attack
on Jerusalem right before the second coming of Jesus
(cf. Zechariah 14:2-4).

Nor was Nero destroyed by the second coming of Jesus
(2 Thessalonians 2:8, Revelation 19:20).

Keep asking those questions, the answer is out there.

 

[Notrash]

I don't agree that Revelation was simply about Rome. That's the preterist view, which holds the prophecy already to have been fulfilled, and thus isn't allowed in the eschatology section because we're discussing the future, not the past.

I think Revelation was written well after the Romans destroyed the temple. The term "666" may well refer to Nero, but that may just be John's way of indicating that the Beast will be political in nature.

I think that conditions in the end will be paralleled by conditions at the time of the early church, but on a larger scale... For instance, Rome sat on seven hills, but the Beast will be on all 7 continents

quote by Arethas (c.850 - 944)

(On the Early Dating of Revelation)
"For there were many, yea, a countless multitude from among the Jews, who believed in Christ : as even they testify, who said to St Paul on his arrival at Jerusalem : Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe. (Acts xxi. 20.) And He who gave this revelation to the Evangelist, declares, that these men shall not share the destruction inflicted by the Romans. For the ruin brought by the Romans had not yet fallen upon the Jews, when this Evangelist received these prophecies : and he did not receive them at Jerusalem, but in Ionia near Ephesus. For after the suffering of the Lord he remained only fourteen years at Jerusalem, during which time the tabernacle of the mother of the Lord, which had conceived this Divine offspring, was preserved in this temporal life, after the suffering and resurrection of her incorruptible Son. For he continued with her as with a mother committed to him by the Lord. For after her death it is reported that he no longer chose to remain in Judaea, but passed over to Ephesus, where, as we have said, this present Apocalypse also was composed ; which is a revelation of future things, inasmuch as forty years after the ascension of the Lord this tribulation came upon the Jews."
​

 

[onwingsaseagles]

We have been in the last days for 2000 years. I try to be a good neighbor and make the world a better place for the grandkids.

Anyone else think the rapture will be a harder sell when year 4008 rolls around?

Peter spoke of people like you.

2nd Peter 3:3-4
3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lust.
4 saying, where is the promise of his coming? for since the father fell asleep , all things continue as they have from the beginning of creation.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

To answer the thread, I don't know if I am saving provision for the Great tribulation as I should, but I believe God will provide.

What I am doing is preparing my heart, mind, and spirit for the reality that the tribulation is coming soon and although will be hard it will not last long and then our Lord will return.

The main thing we as christians need to do in these end times is debunk the pretrib rapture theory so that our brothers and sisters in Christ will not be taken off guard.

God Bless You All.

 

[Bible2]

maelstrom posted in message #35:

I don't agree that Revelation was simply about Rome.
That's the preterist view ...

Revelation chapters 6-18 wasn't about ancient Rome,
but is about a future worldwide tribulation, which
could begin in 2010.

maelstrom posted in message #35:

... the preterist view, which holds the prophecy
already to have been fulfilled, and thus isn't
allowed in the eschatology section because we're
discussing the future, not the past.

Actually, there are different forms of preterism. It
is only full preterism which isn't allowed in the
eschatology section, not because we're discussing the
future and not the past, but because full preterism
overthrows the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

Partial preterism is allowed in the eschatology
section because it still looks forward to the
second coming of Christ and the resurrection of the
Church (1 Corinthians 15:22-23,52-56). And partial
preterism isn't banned from the eschatology section
even though it believes that the tribulation of
Revelation 6-18 already happened in 70 AD, and even
though eschatology is usually thought of as being
about the future and not the past, because partial
preterists still consider Revelation 6-18 to be
eschatology, insofar as it was still about the future
at the time it was written.

maelstrom posted in message #35:

I think Revelation was written well after the Romans
destroyed the temple.

Revelation could very well have been written in the
mid-90s of the first century, during the time of a
persecution of the Church by the Roman emperor
Domitian, which persecution was some 25 years after
the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD.

maelstrom posted in message #35:

The term "666" may well refer to Nero, but that may
just be John's way of indicating that the Beast will
be political in nature.

It hasn't been shown yet that "666" was the gematrial
number of the name (Revelation 13:17b-18, Revelation
15:2b) of Nero as his name was usually spelled in the
Hebrew, Greek, or Latin alphabets during Nero's reign.
The spelling of Nero's name which some claim adds up
to 666 in Hebrew could be a variant spelling which
people purposely jiggered with until it added up to
666.

maelstrom posted in message #35:

I think that conditions in the end will be paralleled
by conditions at the time of the early church, but on
a larger scale... For instance, Rome sat on seven
hills, but the Beast will be on all 7 continents

It's true that the Church's dying at the hands of the
coming Antichrist (Revelation 13:7-10, 14:12-13, 20:4)
will be just like the Church's dying at the hands of
the Roman emperor Domitian in the first century
(cf. Revelation 2:10), but on an even larger scale.

While the empire of the coming Antichrist will indeed
encompass all 7 continents (Revelation 13:7b-8), this
need not be the meaning of Revelation 17:9, as that
could apply only to the one head (empire) of the beast
of Revelation 17 which existed in the time of John
the apostle, which was Rome. Five other heads
(empires) had fallen before the time of John
(Revelation 17:10a): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-
Persia, and Greece; and one head (empire) was to
arise after the fall of Rome (Revelation 17:10b),
which could be the empire of Islam, which culminated
in the Islamic Ottoman Empire. The future empire of
the Antichrist will be an eighth empire (Revelation
17:11) which will encompass the entire earth
(Revelation 13:7b-8).