Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Like I said, don't parse words; you expect everyone to accept EGW on par with the Bible, as canon, that she cannot be questioned; that's popery!
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.” Jer 23:5 (KJV unless otherwise stated)
This is not sola-scriptura but private interpretation, which both dispensationalism as well as Covenantalism, replacement theology, also hold more or less.
As I stated previously, two advents were prophesied and the historicist-Adventist, Frank W. Hardy, affirms this in his thesis, concerning Dan 11, cited below:
“From a chiastic point of view the chapter directs attention to Christ's death on the cross at His first coming in vs. 22. From a linear point of view the same material shows some of the challenges to be faced by those who would base their faith on that event and the action He would finally take to rescue them at His second coming in 12:1.25 Thus, Dan 11 indicates that on two separate occasions Christ would personally invade human history.
The point being, which Ryan and Hardy miss as Adventists, is that the spring festivals represent Christ’s death
Being destined to reject Christ must be distorted
I have yet to even quote Ellen White for anything -- your fiction regarding our discussion topic - does not hold up to the facts of the thread that we can all read.
Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
Why keep doing that?
Jeremiah predicts the first coming of Christ and the Jews accepting Him. That did not happen.
1. 490 years of Jewish probation ended at the time of Christ (shortly after His ascension into heaven) - the same event predicted by that 490 year timeline of Daniel 9
2. As Paul confirms in 1 Thess 2
14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men, 16 hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved; with the result that they always fill up the measure of their sins. But wrath has come upon them to the utmost.
3. As Christ predicted in Matthew 23
32 Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers. 33 You serpents, you brood of vipers, how will you escape the sentence of hell?
34 “Therefore, behold, I am sending you prophets and wise men and scribes; some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues, and persecute from city to city, 35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.
4. Thus we have switched from the "nation-church" model of evangelizing the whole World - to the "persecuted church" model of evangelizing the whole world.
Rom 2 "He is not a Jew who is one outwardly... but he is a Jew who is one inwardly"
==============================
Now it is the "second coming" that we look for and Christ wipes out the wicked at the second coming - and takes all the saints (including any saved-Jews that may exist at that time) to heaven.
In its explanation of Isa 11:4, the SDA bible commentary affirms Christ subdues his enemies and takes his kingdom at his return (the second coming), 1000 years before the phenomena of Rev 21:1-3. What it does not say is that Christ rules on Earth at the second coming.
Rather Christ "rules with a rod of iron" Rev 19 - at the second coming described in Rev 19. Ruling with a rod of Iron is always the term for no-mercy... only justice. And that is what the wicked get at the 2nd coming.. are dead during the millennium and then at the great white throne judgment which gets to them into the lake of fire... see Rev 20.
Not true in real life. In real life I quote the Bible and showing that it makes the case.
Bible details matter.
That is a bait-and-switch.
I never argue that the OT does not speak of the 2nd coming or events after the millennium. Certainly Isaiah 66:23 takes us all the way to the "New Heavens and New Earth"
But it is your quote from Jeremiah 23 that I addressed in my response. Not Daniel 11 or Daniel 12.
Details matter even in a discussion such as this.
This detail in now way is an argument against historicism.
As all Adventist scholars point out - the events connected with the first coming of Christ are in the spring festivals... and those connected with the second coming of Christ are in the fall.
There is no "destined to reject Christ" in the actual Bible.
hint: Ninevah was not 'destined to be destroyed in 40 days'.
I never argue that the OT does not speak of the 2nd coming or events after the millennium. Certainly Isaiah 66:23 takes us all the way to the "New Heavens and New Earth"
But it is your quote from Jeremiah 23 that I addressed in my response. Not Daniel 11 or Daniel 12.
Details matter even in a discussion such as this.
This detail in now way is an argument against historicism.
There is no "destined to reject Christ" in the actual Bible.
hint: Ninevah was not 'destined to be destroyed in 40 days'.
BobRyan said: ↑
I have yet to even quote Ellen White for anything -- your fiction regarding our discussion topic - does not hold up to the facts of the thread that we can all read.
Were we simply "not supposed to notice"??
Why keep doing that?
That you would even consider using EGW as proof, which you did when you exclaimed, “we have not even gotten to the point where I would need to quote from what God told Ellen White,”
exposes that you hold her work on par with the Bible
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.” Jer 23:5 (KJV unless otherwise stated)
This is not sola-scriptura but private interpretation, which both dispensationalism as well as Covenantalism, replacement theology, also hold more or less.
As I stated previously, two advents were prophesied and the historicist-Adventist, Frank W. Hardy, affirms this in his thesis, concerning Dan 11, cited below:
“From a chiastic point of view the chapter directs attention to Christ's death on the cross at His first coming in vs. 22. From a linear point of view the same material shows some of the challenges to be faced by those who would base their faith on that event and the action He would finally take to rescue them at His second coming in 12:1.25 Thus, Dan 11 indicates that on two separate occasions Christ would personally invade human history.
The point being, which Ryan and Hardy miss as Adventists, is that the spring festivals represent Christ’s death
Being destined to reject Christ must be distorted
Wisdom reveals God does not have his prophets disagree with each other;
Jeremiah cannot prophecy that the Jews were to accept Christ
You have Jeremiah say one thing and Daniel say another.
This is the bane of Adventism.
See, open thesis! God didn’t know what the Ninevites would do.
I used to be a traditional and then a moderate and now a former adventist.
To be a moderate adventist means you don't believe all of what they teach and you want out but you stay for some reason or another.
Moderates pick and choose which points of doctrine they want to keep.
Joey
MOD HAT ONThis is a faith community for SDA, please abide by the CF Faith Community Rules and this particular Faith Communities SOP:
Community Rules
In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this group's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules.
MOD HAT OFF
Actually, you have two returns of Christ, just like the dispensationalists. The scriptures only account for 1 return.
See, open thesis! God didn’t know what the Ninevites would do.
MOD HAT ONThis is a faith community for SDA, please abide by the CF Faith Community Rules and this particular Faith Communities SOP:
Community Rules
In addition, if you are not a member of this faith group, you may not debate issues or teach against this group's theology. You may post in fellowship. Active promotion of views contrary to the established teachings of this group will be considered off topic. All posts within this faith community must adhere to the site wide rules.
MOD HAT OFF
In general Mod Hat posts like this are made as a reminder of the rules when one or more people are straying from the forum SOP or there are minor violations. We do not generally call out individual users in a mod hat post like this. But, since you ask directly, only members of the faith group may debate, former members and guests may not. Questions are great and encouraged, debate is not allowed in the faith communities so as to keep the peace. Debate is allowed in other forums on CF, so sometimes individuals will agree to move a thread/discussion to an open forum.As a former traditional Adventist, I posted here. If this is addressed to me then say so or message me.
No need to post several times, I simply had not logged in until this morning.Again, is this a warning that my posts are unacceptable? There is no need to proceed if my posts are going to be band.
I am not a moderate Adventist and I do not know what that means. I'm a progressive adventist, which means I have progressed past the point of even desiring the label. .
Explain to me how the saints could be in heaven/paradise, the tabernacle of God the Father, and the tabernacle of God the Father be declared to be definitively with man only at the end of the thousand years according to the testimony of Christ above? The “desolate earth” doctrine is a fallacy founded upon the error of Replacement theology. Rather the illustration of Jerusalem coming down out of heaven is idiomatic of how we no longer have to come to “the heavenly Jerusalem” in a figurative sense, as Hebrews 12:22 states, when the tabernacle of God will be with man at the end of the thousand years, fulfilling “Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.”
*Henry Grattan Guinness, The Approaching End of the Age Viewed in the Light of History Prophecy and Science (London: Hodder & Stoughton, 1878 ed.), 80
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.” Jer 23:5 (KJV unless otherwise stated)
This is not sola-scriptura but private interpretation, which both dispensationalism as well as Covenantalism, replacement theology, also hold more or less. As I stated previously, two advents were prophesied and the historicist-Adventist, Frank W. Hardy, affirms this in his thesis, concerning Dan 11, cited below:
“From a chiastic point of view the chapter directs attention to Christ's death on the cross at His first coming in vs. 22. From a linear point of view the same material shows some of the challenges to be faced by those who would base their faith on that event and the action He would finally take to rescue them at His second coming in 12:1.25 Thus, Dan 11 indicates that on two separate occasions Christ would personally invade human history.
The point being, which Ryan and Hardy miss as Adventists, is that the spring festivals represent Christ’s death through the rejection by the builders.
Being destined to reject Christ must be distorted in order to interpret Jer 23:5
as Ryan did above: “Jeremiah predicts the first coming of Christ and the Jews accepting Him. That did not happen.” A number of the prophets substantiate that Christ was to be rejected
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?