Are you a dictator?

[Bookofknowledge]

Why not? Can't someone fool you by telling you what you want to hear or perceive as correct? It happens all too often. Have you ever been fooled by someone? Look at it this way, many other people throughout history have done noble things but were not above board in the final analysis.

Am I to read your statement as saying that if a person who claims to be a prophet of God leads you to do good things, that automatically makes him authentic? Far from the truth if you are willing to be truthful yourself.

I have been fooled by the people whom I have loved all my life and I have also been fooled by small kids does that make me dumb sure to some extent but you should know I am only a human, I only have what God has given me, for what I have I am thankful and I seek My Lord for what is good for me in this world and in the hereafter.

Anyone who calims to be a Prophet sent by God they are directly dealing with God and they can't deny the fact that God is going to retaliate. Having said this has anyone here have any account of those people who claimed they are also Prophet but they were not real Prophets and what happen to them?

Prophets, false Prophets and people in general who think based on their knowledge are not equal.

 

[peaceful soul]

I have been fooled by the people whom I have loved all my life and I have also been fooled by small kids does that make me dumb sure to some extent but you should know I am only a human, I only have what God has given me, for what I have I am thankful and I seek My Lord for what is good for me in this world and in the hereafter.

Anyone who calims to be a Prophet sent by God they are directly dealing with God and they can't deny the fact that God is going to retaliate. Having said this has anyone here have any account of those people who claimed they are also Prophet but they were not real Prophets and what happen to them?

Prophets, false Prophets and people in general who think based on their knowledge are not equal.

You need to understand that you will not know if they are or not. God allows false prophets to live too! It is not as if God destroys them on the spot. He allows evil ones to live among the righteous, doesn't He? The fact that we all can get fooled by people who claim to be working on behalf of God, but they are not in reality. What do you think that the antiChrist is? If were so easy not to get fooled, then why would we have to be on the lookout? This has nothing to do with intellect. This has to do with discernment.

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

I am not here to talk about Hindu saints if you want to talk about what I believe with regards to hindu saints please create a new thread.

OK, I will start another thread, and if there is unwanted flaming I will request the thread to be deleted. I do want to know what you think of Hindu saints.

Muslims evolved by uniting the tribes who disputed and were murdering the clang members within arabia hence you cann't say Islam divides humanity without understanding.

BOK, there are some nice passages in the quran, I am not disputing that. There are some horrible passages too, I hope you dont object to that. Which takes precedence?

My understanding is that these nice passages such as equality, making friends with non beleivers are to be practised where muslims are a minority and are politically weak. Eg: India, USA

The horrible and sword verses are to be applied when muslims are a majority and can dictate terms - eg, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Saudi etc.

Can you prove that there exist svereal muslim nations where this philosophy is not followed? Show me one Islamic state where a Hindu can worship God in his own way, build his own temples, talk about his religion in the public.

If there is no such nation, then how to beleive that Islam is the religion of God - when not a single country is able to follow his true words?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

You need to understand that you will not know if they are or not. God allows false prophets to live too! It is not as if God destroys them on the spot. He allows evil ones to live among the righteous, doesn't He? The fact that we all can get fooled by people who claim to be working on behalf of God, but they are not in reality. What do you think that the antiChrist is? If were so easy not to get fooled, then why would we have to be on the lookout? This has nothing to do with intellect. This has to do with discernment.

Understand the limits of a false Prophet and you will be able to figure that out by your self. You cann't deny the fact that God is peace and from God alone is peace.

Do you not believe in God of Abraham? do you say God Abraham is Jesus(AS)?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

OK, I will start another thread, and if there is unwanted flaming I will request the thread to be deleted. I do want to know what you think of Hindu saints.

BOK, there are some nice passages in the quran, I am not disputing that. There are some horrible passages too, I hope you dont object to that. Which takes precedence?

My understanding is that these nice passages such as equality, making friends with non beleivers are to be practised where muslims are a minority and are politically weak. Eg: India, USA

The horrible and sword verses are to be applied when muslims are a majority and can dictate terms - eg, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Saudi etc.

Can you prove that there exist svereal muslim nations where this philosophy is not followed? Show me one Islamic state where a Hindu can worship God in his own way, build his own temples, talk about his religion in the public.

If there is no such nation, then how to beleive that Islam is the religion of God - when not a single country is able to follow his true words?

If you are speaking out of blue then you should educate yourself before saying things, I have never been to pakistan but if you want to visit pakistan let me know I can investigate and find out for you how many temples you can visit and pray...

Do you want to visit pakistan and find out for us if there are any temple there and does hindus are allowed to worship in their temples?

 

[ammuslim]

Bismillah:

Show me one Islamic state where a Hindu can worship God in his own way, build his own temples, talk about his religion in the public.

INDONESIA

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. Yet there are lots of Hindu temples there where you can practice their faith freely.

Also the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims, Yet you can find many hindu temples around where you can practice your faith.

you have asked for one Islamic state, i've shown you two

peace
ammuslim.

 

[peaceful soul]

Understand the limits of a false Prophet and you will be able to figure that out by your self. You cann't deny the fact that God is peace and from God alone is peace.

Do you not believe in God of Abraham? do you say God Abraham is Jesus(AS)?

I believe in the God of Abraham, but you and I have different understandings of who the God of Abraham really is. Your teachings and mind lead us to two different spiritual destinations, neither of which can be simultaneously true. So, there must be some deception to either one of us or both of us. You take your pick.

If it were so easy, then there would be no need to be warned and we would not likely need to second-guess those we encounter. The reality is that it is not so easy. Of course, you can guard yourself against the most obvious things, but many things aren't so obvious. They may make a lot of sense and appear rational and logical, but they can be deceptive. I am just trying to get you to stop looking at things as if you can tell just by what Islam says.

As a Christian, I can tell you from personal experience as well as the Bible, that many things of spiritual nature can take on the form of truth but later can manifest as lies. There is just enough facts in it to lead you to beleive that the whole thing is true. At the time that you are paying attention to what you see as truth, you are not able to discern that it is not. One noteworthy example is a current discussion on another thread about the Qu'ran not being of satan. One Muslims argues that since the Qu'ran has so many references urging people to becoming holy, righteous, and not to trust satan, ect, it can't possibly be from satan. Only God would promote somethig like this. I pointed out that deception is not known to be deception to those who do know that they are being deceived.

Furthermore, satan is not bound to presenting himself to your criteria of rationale. That is what makes satan all the more deceiving: he can simulate the opposite circumstance so that you do not suspect what is going on. You, as a Muslim, only see the end result and not the means of how that result was obtained. Your focus is on righteousness whereas satan's focus is on presenting righteousness at the expenses of not obtaining it through proper means, which is of course, God. So, all the time that you are doing your religious stuff, you do not know that you are feeding into a superficial system of worship and submission to a god that you think that is the real God of this universe. I am not saying these things to belittle you or your beliefs. I am trying to make a point about spiritual things that seem OK without having true discernment. If it were so easy to pinpoint deception, we would not have much of a problem with it. The spiritual realm is a totally different ball game. What you equate with logic does not equate with spiritual things. I hope that I have made myself clear.

PS: you say that God alone is peace, but you don't recoginze that there are many spiritual roads that offer peace and you will accept them just like all of the other people that have gone before you. Having peace is no security of being right with God. There are many spirits of this world that can offer you a sense of peace. I would agree thought that the only meaningful peace is that peace that God gives us. Our question is whether our peace is actually comming from God or not. For me, I am certain and not just because of something that I read in the Bible either, although that may help.

 

[peaceful soul]

Bismillah:



INDONESIA

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. Yet there are lots of Hindu temples there where you can practice their faith freely.

Also the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims, Yet you can find many hindu temples around where you can practice your faith.

you have asked for one Islamic state, i've shown you two

peace
ammuslim.

Who has the majority rule in Indonesia?

 

[Bookofknowledge]

I believe in the God of Abraham, but you and I have different understandings of who the God of Abraham really is. Your teachings and mind lead us to two different spiritual destinations, neither of which can be simultaneously true. So, there must be some deception to either one of us or both of us. You take your pick.

If it were so easy, then there would be no need to be warned and we would not likely need to second-guess those we encounter. The reality is that it is not so easy. Of course, you can guard yourself against the most obvious things, but many things aren't so obvious. They may make a lot of sense and appear rational and logical, but they can be deceptive. I am just trying to get you to stop looking at things as if you can tell just by what Islam says.

As a Christian, I can tell you from personal experience as well as the Bible, that many things of spiritual nature can take on the form of truth but later can manifest as lies. There is just enough facts in it to lead you to beleive that the whole thing is true. At the time that you are paying attention to what you see as truth, you are not able to discern that it is not. One noteworthy example is a current discussion on another thread about the Qu'ran not being of satan. One Muslims argues that since the Qu'ran has so many references urging people to becoming holy, righteous, and not to trust satan, ect, it can't possibly be from satan. Only God would promote somethig like this. I pointed out that deception is not known to be deception to those who do know that they are being deceived.

Furthermore, satan is not bound to presenting himself to your criteria of rationale. That is what makes satan all the more deceiving: he can simulate the opposite circumstance so that you do not suspect what is going on. You, as a Muslim, only see the end result and not the means of how that result was obtained. Your focus is on righteousness whereas satan's focus is on presenting righteousness at the expenses of not obtaining it through proper means, which is of course, God. So, all the time that you are doing your religious stuff, you do not know that you are feeding into a superficial system of worship and submission to a god that you think that is the real God of this universe. I am not saying these things to belittle you or your beliefs. I am trying to make a point about spiritual things that seem OK without having true discernment. If it were so easy to pinpoint deception, we would not have much of a problem with it. The spiritual realm is a totally different ball game. What you equate with logic does not equate with spiritual things. I hope that I have made myself clear.

PS: you say that God alone is peace, but you don't recoginze that there are many spiritual roads that offer peace and you will accept them just like all of the other people that have gone before you. Having peace is no security of being right with God. There are many spirits of this world that can offer you a sense of peace. I would agree thought that the only meaningful peace is that peace that God gives us. Our question is whether our peace is actually comming from God or not. For me, I am certain and not just because of something that I read in the Bible either, although that may help.

You making it so complex and difficult for humans to understand the works of Satan and False Prophets but let me ask you this question Is it difficult for your God?

Do you feel mankind was not educated by God so that they can understand the works of Satan? Do you think Satan is more powerful then believers?

What did Jesus (AS) said about Abraham, Issac, Jacob, solomen, David, Lot, Moses - did Jesus say they were all my slaves whom he created and sent as Prophets?

 

[vajradhara]

well you have introduced to me the word "dhimmitude" so I am giving you free will to speak of what you know about the history - doesn't matter it's the country you choose or the people who have had "enforced" upon them? because I am going to investigate whatever you say based on your loyalty towards the information you present.

salaam bok,

so... you don't know what a Dhimmi is?

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.

http://www.dhimmi.com/victimsgallery.htm

metta,

~v

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

Bismillah:



INDONESIA

Indonesia is a country that has the maximum number of Muslims in the world. Yet there are lots of Hindu temples there where you can practice their faith freely.

Also the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims, Yet you can find many hindu temples around where you can practice your faith.

you have asked for one Islamic state, i've shown you two

peace
ammuslim.

So you are conceding that only muslims in these two nations are true muslims? Or are they heretics? See, my point in asking this question is, how many nations...not bothered about odd exceptions.

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

If you are speaking out of blue then you should educate yourself before saying things, I have never been to pakistan but if you want to visit pakistan let me know I can investigate and find out for you how many temples you can visit and pray...

Do you want to visit pakistan and find out for us if there are any temple there and does hindus are allowed to worship in their temples?

Just have a look at the statistics:

1947:
Hindus - 24% of the population of Pakistan

2004:
Hindus - less than 1%

Where do you think all these Hindus disappeared?


If there are temples in Pakistan, actually it may not be surprising, because it had a lot of temples prior to independence. Are there such temples in the middle east? One Hindu temple in Saudi Arabia?

 

[satay]

Just have a look at the statistics:

1947:
Hindus - 24% of the population of Pakistan

2004:
Hindus - less than 1%

Where do you think all these Hindus disappeared?


If there are temples in Pakistan, actually it may not be surprising, because it had a lot of temples prior to independence. Are there such temples in the middle east? One Hindu temple in Saudi Arabia?

Most hindu, buddhist and sikh gurudwaras and temples have been destroyed by the malecchas in paki-land.

s

 

[Bookofknowledge]

salaam bok,

so... you don't know what a Dhimmi is?

Dhimmitude is the status that Islamic law, the Sharia, mandates for non-Muslims. Dhimmis, "protected people," are free to practice their religion in a Sharia regime, but are made subject to a number of humiliating regulations designed to enforce the Qur'an's command that they "feel themselves subdued" (Sura 9:29). This denial of equality of rights and dignity remains part of the Sharia, and, as such, are part of the law that global jihadists are laboring to impose everywhere, ultimately on the entire human race.

http://www.dhimmi.com/victimsgallery.htm

metta,

I am giving you one more chance educate yourself with whatever source you can collect then be sure that I am going to retaliate both by law of land and law of religion.

This can not be true but by posting websites like this you are proving that you are heading towards the category of dictator not a student who wants to learn the truth.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Just have a look at the statistics:

1947:
Hindus - 24% of the population of Pakistan

2004:
Hindus - less than 1%

Where do you think all these Hindus disappeared?


If there are temples in Pakistan, actually it may not be surprising, because it had a lot of temples prior to independence. Are there such temples in the middle east? One Hindu temple in Saudi Arabia?

How many hindus migrated from pakistan to India and other lands while you guys were demolishing babri masjid?

Don't be pathetic in your claims you said Show me one Islamic state where a Hindu can worship God in his own way now you are saying your not surprise to find there are temples in pakistan?

 

[SlaveOfGod]

There is a hindu temple in karachi, pakistan.

I have seen it in person.

 

[MahaSudarshanChakra]

How many hindus migrated from pakistan to India and other lands while you guys were demolishing babri masjid?

Don't be pathetic in your claims you said Show me one Islamic state where a Hindu can worship God in his own way now you are saying your not surprise to find there are temples in pakistan?

Perhaps there are some muslim kaffirs in Pakistan who tolerate that. These are probably not true muslims.

Which guys were demolishing Babri masjid and who were supporting them? That party is not in power you know - such actions are not even supported by Hindus, leave alone Hinduism.

For every one Babri masjid in India, one thousand temples are destoyed in Kashmir by muslims, to which Hindus have done nothing. Ethnic cleansing of Hindus is going on muslim dominated Kashmir, it is a shame for a Hindu majority India and a slur on the name of "tolerant" Hindus.

And I know, any muslim like you will come to the defence of Pakistan when pitted with India.....and we know where your loyalties lie.

Babri Masjid was not even a place of muslim worship at the time of demolition and it is like killing a dead snake, mere egoism from both sides. How many other masjids have been destroyed in India? Just count your number....

No Hindu temple is destoyed in muslim countries because there simply is none, and none is allowed. Most Islamic nations arrest a person at the airport if caught with the Bhagavad Gita, so much for muslim tolerance.

 

[Bookofknowledge]

Perhaps there are some muslim kaffirs in Pakistan who tolerate that. These are probably not true muslims.

Which guys were demolishing Babri masjid and who were supporting them? That party is not in power you know - such actions are not even supported by Hindus, leave alone Hinduism.

For every one Babri masjid in India, one thousand temples are destoyed in Kashmir by muslims, to which Hindus have done nothing. Ethnic cleansing of Hindus is going on muslim dominated Kashmir, it is a shame for a Hindu majority India and a slur on the name of "tolerant" Hindus.

And I know, any muslim like you will come to the defence of Pakistan when pitted with India.....and we know where your loyalties lie.

Babri Masjid was not even a place of muslim worship at the time of demolition and it is like killing a dead snake, mere egoism from both sides. How many other masjids have been destroyed in India? Just count your number....

No Hindu temple is destoyed in muslim countries because there simply is none, and none is allowed. Most Islamic nations arrest a person at the airport if caught with the Bhagavad Gita, so much for muslim tolerance.

there are certain things you need to understand before you say things. If you think about it then you will be able to accomplish those skills. If I say, it will hurt your judgements.

 

[SlaveOfGod]

Perhaps there are some muslim kaffirs in Pakistan who tolerate that. These are probably not true muslims.

Which guys were demolishing Babri masjid and who were supporting them? That party is not in power you know - such actions are not even supported by Hindus, leave alone Hinduism.

For every one Babri masjid in India, one thousand temples are destoyed in Kashmir by muslims, to which Hindus have done nothing. Ethnic cleansing of Hindus is going on muslim dominated Kashmir, it is a shame for a Hindu majority India and a slur on the name of "tolerant" Hindus.

And I know, any muslim like you will come to the defence of Pakistan when pitted with India.....and we know where your loyalties lie.

Babri Masjid was not even a place of muslim worship at the time of demolition and it is like killing a dead snake, mere egoism from both sides. How many other masjids have been destroyed in India? Just count your number....

No Hindu temple is destoyed in muslim countries because there simply is none, and none is allowed. Most Islamic nations arrest a person at the airport if caught with the Bhagavad Gita, so much for muslim tolerance.

Firstly there is no such thing as a muslim kafir. Secondly your not in any position to suspect if anyone is a true muslim or not, so keep the petty comments to yourself.

Hindus in karachi are allowed to worship no problem. Like i said there is a temple there, people coming and going from worship. So i dont know where the heck you are getting these ideas that hindu temples are not allowed in muslim countries.

Other Muslim countries that allow hindu temples: Indonesia, Malaysia, probably find more if i could be bothered to do some research

 

[ammuslim]

Bismillah:

So you are conceding that only muslims in these two nations are true muslims? Or are they heretics? See, my point in asking this question is, how many nations...not bothered about odd exceptions.

do they have to be a true Muslims just because they have some Hindu temples in their countries ? it seems that you dont understand what is the meaning of 'true Muslim'

[QUOTE-MahaSudarshanChakra]Just have a look at the statistics:

1947:
Hindus - 24% of the population of Pakistan

2004:
Hindus - less than 1%

Where do you think all these Hindus disappeared?

If there are temples in Pakistan, actually it may not be surprising, because it had a lot of temples prior to independence. Are there such temples in the middle east? One Hindu temple in Saudi Arabia?[/QUOTE]

are you telling me that Hindus disappeared from Pakistan because there is no temple there ? i think you just have no idea about the numebrs of your fellow Hindus who live and work in Dubai, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, Sadui Arabia, Egypt, and many other Muslim countries, where you cannot find any single hindu temple and yet the hindues %age in these countries is not getting less like what happened in Pakistan, in fact they are incearsing and many of them have his own business too.

it seems that all of these hindus people who live in a Muslim countries are not a 'true Hindus' because they dont go to temples.

peace
ammuslim