Are you a Christian? - continuation thread

[StAnselm]

MOD HAT ON

Just to clarify, the discussion about John Piper, unreached people and whether or not God kills people was all fine. Under Rule 1.5, however, it's not appropriate to discuss whether Arminians are regenerate.

MOD HAT OFF

 

[Rick Otto]

I agree with the Mod by the simple fact that only God knows, & our salvation doesn't depend upon an intellectual or verbal work of articulation. All I knew before I (was) stumbled across reformed doctrine, was how much my love for Jesus conflicted with every Arminian tradition offered, at some point down the road.

I'm "Calvinist" as far as the TULIP goes, but I have reservations about Calvin's ecclesiology, especialy in the area of discipline. =)

If you see me in heaven, you'll hear a lot of "Who knew?" & see some shock & surprise, but I got a grip on this TULIP(these doctrines).
That's NOT what I'm countin' on, though.

 

[reformedfan]

and cease arguing over unimportant doctrinal issues altogether,

doctrine is important, for how a person lives post conversion is dictated by their theolgy. The command is to disciple the nations, and this is where doctrine & theology continue to be critically important

 

[reformedfan]

a person's life flows from his theology. Someone that thinks evangelism is a waste of time isn't going to evangelize; someone who believes their church has a lock on the truth is going to present the 'my church Gospel'; someone who believes that man is basically good, is gonna tone down the Gospel in order not to insult people's intellects; etc.

Doctrine is crucial. It dictates a person's thoughts & actions. It is therefore essential that the doctrine be good & sound, unlike modern stuff based on dilluted heresies

 

[reformedfan]

You yourself have stated, in another post, in this thread, or anohter similar thread, that you do not believe Arminians have the right to be acknowledged as brethren.

oh my stars, you have SO gotten me confused with someone else!! I was correcting someone else's assertions on that topic! I have said many times, many places the opposite, that it is Christ's blood that justifies a sinner- nothing else. Not works, not proper theology, Christ's propitiationary atonement.

Is this NOT you insinuating thay your church has the one and only LOCK on the truth?

Is this NOT you presenting a MY Church Gospel?

I believe it is.

no, in fact, it is on my list of 'wrong heresies to be avoided thru good doctrine'. hypercalvinism, hyper arminianism, social gospel: you are jumping to conclusions based on whatever your theology is: intolerance of Calvinists, mebbe?

Doctrine has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with witnessing to a lost person about Jesus Christ.

duh, i said it was critical in discipleship. It can beuseful in evangelism, but not if it is presented as the way of salvation.

I have never once spoken to a lost person and told them that they had be an Arminian to be saved, or a Calvinist to truly be born again.

I have never once said to any lost person that I have witnessed to that they have to become a member of a certain denomination, or attend a specific church to be a Christian.

These things have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether a person is TRULY a Christian, they are unimportant.

there are some (not me) that disagree with you. He is here posting in this thread too. so i'll use the quote feature from now on, since you are confused by my posts.

The lost are witnessing the body of Christ constantly bickering over who is right, and who is wrong, and we are NOT presenting a sincere example of Jesus Christ to them.

A lost person today who Might be considering becoming a Christian, who witnesses the examples of modern day Christians, would not be drawn to considering the truth of Gods word, they are being presented with a witness of confusion by us.

good thing i know about the I in TULIP, or i'd lay awake nights jes tortured over this

 

[reformedfan]

man alive, dude, didja read Jonas3's post that i was responding to? He said 'weaker brothers are not armins, but people who don't believe the Gospel.' I said, 'if they (as in weaker brothers, not Armins) don't believe the Gospel, how can they (those who don't believe the Gospel) be brothers at all'-you got me pegged wrong, even in your baseball bat threaD i never said armins weren;t Christinas, i consis stood on the side of 'anyone who has been redeemed by Christ's blood is in, no matter what their theology' you are mixed up, like i already said, please knock it off, i got enough problems with internet harrassment from people who are wrong

 

[Beoga]

I strongly disagree.

We set an example of Jesus Christ by our actions,

That is theology/doctrine

and the prominent actions, which are the daily visible example the world is seeing of Jesus Christ today is severe bickering, and arguing over absolutely NON important doctrinal issues.

The true standard by which any person is required to live their Christian life after being born again is set according to ALL of the word of God (2nd Timothy 3:16), not mans loose denominational, theological interpretations of some of the word of God.

The majority of modern day theological denominational doctrines are at best, severely lacking in sound Biblical truth.

You better not ever open your mouth and speak anything about Christ or God because when you do you are speaking theology.
Our theology affects how we live and how we evangelize.

 

[reformedfan]

ok, so you're saying the Mormon, the Catholic & I all will tell the same Gospel, since the Gospel is a doctrine- free zone?

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

I am a Christian by the grace of God and a Calvinist because I read my Bible. When I discuss Christianity with a nonbeliever, there is no mention of election and there shouldn't be. We are to preach the gospel indiscriminately and let the Holy Spirit work in the hearts of those whom He will.

My pastor was raised Catholic, converted at the witness of pentecostals, and came to believe in Calvinism when he read the Bible. He no longer holds the tradition of man as final truth and no longer accepts anything extrabiblical as a foundation of his faith. Was he saved because of the church of those who presented the gospel or because God saved him? Anyone in this forum would give praise to God and not to man.

 

[Beoga]

Theology has absolutely NOTHING to whatsoever to do with witnessing to the lost.

So the death of Christ and His redemptive power bringing about justification to a lost sinner has absolutely nothing to do with Theology?

I don't go up to a lost person and say hey would you like to become a memebr of the Presbytarian church, or the Baptist church, or the Assembly of God church, or the Pentecostal Church?

I ask them, did you know that Jesus loves you?

This brings about denominational theology. The non-reformed person makes no distinction between God's love for people. The reformed person makes a distinction between God's salvific love for His elect and His general love for all. If you share one or the another, or give off the implication of one over the area, you are sharing denominational theology.

IF That question gets a positive response, I tell them the uncompromised, life changing, full Gospel story of the cross of Jesus Christ.

The Gospel does not contain theology? Christ dying for sinners is not theology?

Election is not spoken of, denominations are not mentioned, theology is NOT declared, ONLY the Gospel of Jesus Christ, denominational trash is thrown to the wind like so much garbage, because when a lost person, who has a need only GOD can meet, is hearing the Gospel declared to them, they could care less about some denominations doctrinal theological trash.

Do you know what theology is? If so, you should not call it trash.

If you folks want to go and try to save people into your denomination, go ahead, but none of them will get to heaven on that witness

Its not about saving someone into my denomination, it is about presenting the whole of Biblical Truth and not shying away from sharing it so as not to discomfort anyone. I do not want to see someone make a profession of faith and then profess hersey.

 

[reformedfan]

You are still stating that the lost have to become a Calvinist before they can truly become a Christian....

ok, so the mormon, the arminian, the calvinist & the jehov witness all tell the same Gospel, there ya like that better?

doctrine DOES come into it, two of those on the list above will tell the wrong Gospel, one of the right versionsa of the Gospel from the list above will conclude with "pray this prayer" & the other correct presentation won't. That's doctrine.

 

[ksen]

I am a Christian by the grace of God and a Calvinist because I read my Bible.

That is an awesome statement! Can I have your permission to put it in my sig?

 

[ksen]

You are still stating that the lost have to become a Calvinist before they can truly become a Christian....

Fatty, you are seriously misconstruing what reformedfan has been saying. Please check your presuppositions and reread what she has been saying.

 

[ksen]

I am a Born Again, Spirit Fileld, Child of God, and servant of Jesus Christ, by the Grace of God....

Why are you laying all of this theology on us?

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Theology is the study of God, just as geology is the study of rocks. geo + ology / theo + ology Theology is the study of God, it is the way that we learn more about the one we worship, who is God. The very gospel message of the mercy of God who came to Earth and was crucufied is theology. A nonbeliever learns of their lack of a way to save themselves and believes on Christ and the atonement for their sins. They must learn several things before they can be saved, if they are to believe in something.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

By the way Denny, if you want to learn about God it would be better to learn from a teacher who will listen to what others are saying and who will respect them regardless of what answer they give. Based on the way Fatty has presented himself in these forums and the way he has repeatedly disguised himself to cause trouble, all in the name of some class in church no less, does he present himself as a trustworthy teacher? You don't need to answer me, just think about it for a moment.

 

[edie19]

ok, so you're saying the Mormon, the Catholic & I all will tell the same Gospel, since the Gospel is a doctrine- free zone?

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Just before I read your post I was thinking that lack of sound theological and doctrinal knowledge/understanding allows people to be taken in by the likes of Jim Jones and David Koresh.

 

[Fatty]

By the way Denny, if you want to learn about God it would be better to learn from a teacher who will listen to what others are saying and who will respect them regardless of what answer they give. Based on the way Fatty has presented himself in these forums and the way he has repeatedly disguised himself to cause trouble, all in the name of some class in church no less, does he present himself as a trustworthy teacher? You don't need to answer me, just think about it for a moment.

I will say this about my friend, and my SINCERE brother in Christ Jesus, Fatty.

Disguised himself? That's rich! What you don't know is sometimes I posted some of the things that were posted, just to test some of you on how Christ Like you would act, and sometimes some of you failed miserably, what an acceptable example of Jesus Christ some of you presented to some brand new Christians in our classes!

Mopre than once some of you were asked for proof of the Biblical validity of your doctrine, none of you ever once gave that proof, ever!

More than once many of you were asked HOW a Calvinist (exclusivelly select elect person) knows for sure they are the one and only exclusivelly select elect, and that they have been saved, NOT once did any of you ever answer that question, most of the time you argued, insulted, and was very arrogant and sarcastic, as is the case even now when a certain memebr of your group declares in his/her posts that anyone who will not accept the teachings of John Calvin should not even be acknowledegd as a brother in Christ!

NOW if that is NOT saying any other person other than a Calvinist is not a Christian, what is, BUT of course, calvinsist can do no wrong, right?

At least Fatty takes the time to present the whole picture from the word of God, and not little pieces of verses butchered and mutilated by denominational prejudices.

The one thing he has taught us from the very beginning of our Bible studies is that we must base all of our beliefs in God, on all of his word, and not part of his word.

AND Fatty has also given each of the opportunity to study any denominations doctrines for ourselves, encouraging us to thoroughly comopare the doctrine to ALL of Gods word to accurately verify it's BIBLICAL authenticity, and we have done this with the teachings of John Calvin, and guess what?

The teachings do not accurately agree with ALL of Gods word!

WE have also read the posts in these forums which supposedly prove the teachings of John Calvin to be acccurate and they are NOT.

Fatty teaches the truth as it is written in the word of God, not some mans false doctrine.

I'd much rather follow a teacher who is not afraid to tell us the whole truth about God. Denny

 

[Fatty]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Just before I read your post I was thinking that lack of sound theological and doctrinal knowledge/understanding allows people to be taken in by the likes of Jim Jones and David Koresh.

I made this challenge in another thread, so I will give you all the same challenge here.

Give an example of how you would present what you think is a Biblically sound, presentation of the uncompromised, life changing Full Gospel message of the cross of Jesus Christ to a lost person.

BUT remember, the person you are witnessing to is someone who has never been in a church in their life, they have never once heard anything about God, Jesus, or the Bible, they know nothing at all about any religious group, or any denomination, this person is absolutely Spiritually ignorant.

Go for it!

 

[reformedfan]

everything everyone has said to you, on every single subject, you have mocked & belittled & distorted.

I do not need to tell you the Gospel, hoping you approve of the manner in which i present it, you are not my God. i know i say the Gospel right cuz it's the message of the Bible- not just the New Testament- & cuz I've seen God pleased to used it in the hearts of the elect, drawing them to faith in His Son.

Go to hte debate area if you want to debate. You make a good case for entrapment being illegal. James 3:1