Are you a Christian? - continuation thread

[CoffeeSwirls]

The churches helping survivors from the hurricanes don't seem to be arguing one way or another right now, do they? Difficult times have a way of grounding the church in what truly matters.

Tell me, do you believe that some remote tribe in the jungles of Africa that could be first discovered tomorrow has had an opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ? Natural revelation has the power only to condemn. That is why we are called to go to every tribe, tongue and nation to proclaim the gospel.

 

[Fatty]

The churches helping survivors from the hurricanes don't seem to be arguing one way or another right now, do they? Difficult times have a way of grounding the church in what truly matters.

That is a true fact! I only wish that we all, as the body of Christ would consider every moment, of every day as difficult times, and cease arguing over unimportant doctrinal issues altogether, and focus all of our Spiritual, and physical energy on what truly matters most of all: The Lost, and the hurting.

Tell me, do you believe that some remote tribe in the jungles of Africa that could be first discovered tomorrow has had an opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ? Natural revelation has the power only to condemn. That is why we are called to go to every tribe, tongue and nation to proclaim the gospel.

This is what I believe. If someone, male, or female, is called, by God, to go forth as a missionary, to go to the nations of the earth, declaring, without apology, and without compromise, the uncompromised, life changing, full Gospel message of the cross Of Jesus Christ, God, by the Holy Ghost, will empower, and equip that person to fulfill that calling.

And having been fully equipped, and empowered by the Holy Ghost to declare that message of truth, and Love, and Hope, and assurance of an opportunity to receive the gift of Gods saving grace through Jesus Christ, by faith, even the most hetahen, of the heathen can be saved and have the absolute assurance that they can and will spend eternity in heaven.

God is no respector of persons, with men it is impossible, but with God all things are possible, and if believers have faith (Mark 9:23) all things are possible to them that believe!

Our problem is we have been taught, through predestination (Election) that God Desires that only certain ones be saved, and all others be condemnned, but it is Gods desire that ALL be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth, he knows that not everyone who hears the message will accept the gift being offered to them, and that these will eventuallu end up in hell for all eternity, BUT God also knows that many will accept the gift of salvation, and he also knows that many will NOT go forth as his witnesses to tell the lost about Jesus, and because of this rebellion, many, who would have accepted the offer of the gift of salvation, will never hear that message, and will die and go to hell forever.

And for that rebellion, many will be held accountable when standing before the great white judgment seat of Christ Jesus......

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

What is the difference from one person who accepts what they year and another who does not? Was one more receptive than the other? Was the one smarter? Did one hear the gospel preached more forcefully than the other? I say that both came in blind and one had their eyes opened by God and the other did not.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

I agree that we need to obey the word of God. The part that I disagree with is this:

First of all God has already pre-determine that anyone, and everyone, anywhere and everywhere is to be given an equal opportunity to hear the Gospel message.

This is something that has not happened in the past and is not happening in the present. There are people dying without ever hearing the name of Christ. That is why we go!

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Romans 10
14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard?http://www.gnpcb.org/esv/search/?q=Romans+10#f3 And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!” 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?” 17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.

This may come down to what truths need to be believed to be saved. Do you need to know about the penalty placed upon Christ? Do you need to know that he rose again? Are these things that one can determine on their own without being told? I say no.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

So what you are saying is; we, as the servants of Jesus Christ, are NOT required by the word of God to go and preach the Gospel to every person everywhere, is that correct?

That is wrong, we are obligated by the commandment of God to witness to the lost.

You're right, no person can believe on their own, BUT they can believe if they are witnessed to!

No, what I am saying is that there are unreached people that we need to witness to. There are people who have died without ever hearing. I believe you denied that fact earlier. Not everyone has heard the gospel.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Amen. There is no such thing as a unreachable person and there is no such thing as a closed border. I have on mp3 a sermon by John Piper, called Doing Missions When Dying Is Gain

You can listen to it by clicking the link. Odd, now this post is coming out bold and I can't turn it off. OK, just know that I'm not yelling here.

I have managed to compress the file down to 11.1 MB without significant loss to the quality of the recording. The sermon itself is 48 minutes, 49 seconds, but the time will pass quickly. This sermon is Piper at his best, and I wish the sermon was much longer. I do ask that you right click on the link in case you want to listen to it again. It is a good enough sermon that you likely will want to listen to it frequently.

A good sermon is like a productive study in the word. It changes you. It changes your outlook on life. It causes you to want to conform to the will of God in all things. This is such a sermon. Please download it and listen to it. Please pray over the points in the sermon, that God would move your heart toward missions, whether you decide to go into the field, want to be bolder in your personal evangelism, or more trusting that God will provide for your needs as you support those missionaries who leave everything behind for the joy of the gospel message, only to look back years later and insist that they never missed a thing.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Oh, but just after the shocking statement comes the support for it, and the Biblical and historical fact that the blood of the saints is how the gospel spreads across the whole world. A year or two later, the children of these missionaries went to the same tribe and the tribe realized that any message worth dying for and worth risking all for us a message they should hear out.

Rev 6
9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. 10 They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

God has a number of people destined to be martyred for their faith. Peter and Paul were both told that they would learn to suffer for the name. All but one of the apostles died a horrific death. The stoning of Stephen ignited a scattering of Christians, who spread the gospel all over the known world. If God is sovereign and if He has decreed that there would be people who would leave their blood to witness to all the Earth the value of Christ, then in a sense you could say that His will played a part in this death.

I want to have a faith that will cause me to rejoice at being found worthy to suffer for the name, just as Peter and John did. I want to know that any thorn in the flesh only makes me lean on God all the more. Christianity as it is taught in most of the churches in North America is an abomination of comfort and psycho/emotional felt needs. Comfort and happiness is the promise placed before those who gather. This does not mirror the Biblical accounts or the historical accounts. When Christianity doesn't cost a person anything at all, there is no witness. When it costs a person everything, the world takes notice.

It's no wonder the world only notices Christianity during an election year in the states. Other than our numbers, we are irrelevant. For all of the means at our disposal, we do not touch the lives of people with any solution they can't find elsewhere.

God showed the Aucas how much Nate Saint would suffer for the name of Christ and that day was blessed when the gospel was next preached to them. I found a page on the Baptist Press about this: http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=21347

The title of this thread is "Are You a Christian." I view a Christian as one who is being conformed to the image of Christ. Some of us will have to be put to death by sinful men for the joy set before us, others will not. This message breaks my heart as well, but the story does not end with missionaries being speared on a beach. It ends with many of those tribesmen in glory right alongside them, all because they modelled the infinate value of the gospel and the love needed to share it with them.

 

[Beoga]

BUT God himself, did NOT murder those missionaries, God had Nothing whatsoever to do with their deaths, satan killed them, blaming God for satans work is the greatest blasphemy there is, in fact, it is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, which is an unpardonable sin, Jesus said it was in Matthew chapter 12.

God is not a murderer, of course he is aware of everything that will happen, but it is NOT his will for his servants (whom he loves) to be violently and viciously murdered......

Any Scriptural proof to back up the idea that it is Satan that takes the life away from someone and not God?
I would say that attributing the work of God to Satan is another great blasphemy.

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Is God sovereign? That is, must everything that happens be something He allows?
Is God omniscient? Does He know everything?

If the answer to both of those questions is "yes" than God allowed this to happen and everything that God allows will be to His ultimate glory. Now, if God both knows and allows all thing that happen, can one assume that God proactively causes such things that will bring Him the greatest glory to happen? A Calvinist will say that yes, He does. That is a large pill for some to swallow, and I took that pill sideways, but I am all the better for it. Because I know that God has prepared the events in my life, and because I trust Him, I can take my next step confidantly. I don't know what tomorrow brings, but I do know that God is shaping me for it today.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

 

[AndOne]

God had Nothing whatsoever to do with their deaths....

Sounds pretty arminean to me...

 

[JJB]

Fatty,

You are missing out on a wondeful sermon. Don't shut down because of one difficulty. Persevere through it so you can hear the wonderful message to Go and Make Disciples of All Nations.

I would encourage you to listen to it particularly since you have a heart for the lost. There will be other parts of the sermon you can glean from. I've listened to that sermon more than once. It will encourage you as you seek the Lord to do his will.

Blessings to you,
JJB

 

[CoffeeSwirls]

Out of curiosity, do you consider every instance of the willfull killing of a human as murder? That is what I'm hearing here, and if so, we do have a different outlook on such things.

 

[Beoga]

John 10:10, proof enough, especially since God himself said it!

God never murders anyone, never has, never will.

God has turned the wicked over to satan for the destruction of their flesh, at the hand of satan many times, but God himself has never once killed, or murdered anyone at anytime, and he never will.

I have never once attributed the work of God to satan, that is as ludicrous, and as false an accusation as anyone could ever make.

Please explain how verse 10 is talking about physical life.

 

[Jon_]

No I do not consider each loss of the life of a human being as an act of murder, and even then God never MURDERS, that act can always at all times be rightly ttributed to satan the event in question was murder, there is absolutely no question about that.

God is NOT a murderer.

God did not cause the death of those missionaries, he never approved of their murders, and he certainly did not have a part in those deaths.

Yes, you are absolutely correct, if you place the responsibility for the murders of those missionaries on God, then we are indeed in total disagreement, I will not condemn God as a murderer, I love him far too much to do that.

Well, God certainly doesn't murder, as murder is morally wrong. But he certainly kills:

(1 Ch. 10:13, 14 AV) So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to enquire of it; 14) And enquired not of the LORD: therefore he slew him, and turned the kingdom unto David the son of Jesse.
​

Here, the author clearly ascribes the death of Saul (remember, he committed suicide) to the hand of the Lord ("therefore he slew him").

Can't argue with Scripture.

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[oworm]

in fact God does not kill, satan does,

Who killed Ananias and his wife in Acts 5:1-11?

 

[edie19]

Either God controls all things, including the power of life and death, or He doesn't. But if we say He doesn't, that these things are outside of His providence, then we're diminishing Him.

I didn't listen to the mp3 that prompted this discussion. But consider the case of Nate Saint, Jim Elliot and the other missionaries killed in Ecuador in 1956. Family members of the murdered men went back to the village, established a church and many in the same tribe were converted.

History is full of Christian martyrs. God uses each and everyone of them to advance His church and to ultimately bring glory to Himself.

 

[StAnselm]

 

[StAnselm]

MOD HAT ON

This thread has been split, and the primary discussion trashed.

Rule 1.5 clearly states: You will not directly state or otherwise imply that another member is not a Christian if they are considered “Christian” according to Rule 6 of these forums.

Hence, we will not allow discussion concerning whether or Arminians (or Catholics) are regenerate.

The secondary discussion can continue. Please carry on.
MOD HAT OFF