Are those who deny eternal punishment doomed to Hell?

[Basil the Great]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.

 

[Lazarus Short]

I would not read the line either, and am heartened to hear that the light is starting to shine in believers.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.

Good question. I do not believe that God sets a theology exam as a condition for salvation. If a person is born again, then they are accepted by God. However, being saved is far more than just going to heaven when you die. We are meant to be witnesses and to be making disciple. I'm not convinced that the gospel is effective if people believe that they will make it into heaven eventually.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I would not read the line either, and am heartened to hear that the light is starting to shine in believers.

When I was studying this issue, I read an article by a pastor who adopted UR. People stopped getting saved. When he went back to preaching hell, people started repenting and being saved again.
Why would anyone give up the pleasures of sin if they thought that they'd make it into heaven anyway? UR is much more comfortable for Christians because it does not offend anyone. The church has been declining spiritually for decades. There is a great deal that is false now and UR is just another wrong teaching that is creeping in.

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Good question. I do not believe that God sets a theology exam as a condition for salvation. If a person is born again, then they are accepted by God. However, being saved is far more than just going to heaven when you die. We are meant to be witnesses and to be making disciple. I'm not convinced that the gospel is effective if people believe that they will make it into heaven eventually.

When I was studying this issue, I read an article by a pastor who adopted UR. People stopped getting saved. When he went back to preaching hell, people started repenting and being saved again.
Why would anyone give up the pleasures of sin if they thought that they'd make it into heaven anyway? UR is much more comfortable for Christians because it does not offend anyone. The church has been declining spiritually for decades. There is a great deal that is false now and UR is just another wrong teaching that is creeping in.

Well, who wants to catch it all their life on this plane then die and go to Hell when they die? Witnessing to people that Hell is real is very effective in getting people to see the love of God imho.

 

[SkyWriting]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation.

What if "eternal punishment" actually means that time doesn't exist in hell?
Which is why the crowd went silent. Because it depends on what it means.

If eternal means "without end" then if time doesn't exist, hell would be without end.

 

[redleghunter]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.

Just wanted to add Reformed are also creedal.

Now I guess the question is if one denies eternal punishment does that mean God will honor their belief.

 

[hedrick]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation.

It says "into everlasting fire." Presumably people will understand this in the same sense that they understand similar terms in the NT. If you advocate "literal" interpretation of the creed, after all, you end up with works salvation, since it says that judgement is based entirely upon our deeds.

I would think that would be a more serious issue than the reference to everlasting fire.

 

[Tra Phull]

I don't think the Athanasian Creed was written by Athanasius, and it seems in places to be more a curse than a CREED. Formerly it was in Book of Common Prayer (Episcopal) - right alongside Nicene and Apostles Creeds, but it was later moved into the Historical Documents section, no longer on a par with Nicene and Apostles

People have "the right to remain silent" coming to a phrase they think is bogus. Like me when Nicene Creed is printed in a bulletin with the FILOQUE in it. Originally, Nicene Creed said the Holy Spirit PROCEEDS FROM THE FATHER.

It goes on to say "with the Father AND THE SON, He is worshipped and glorified"

But the first filioque was added later, Orthodox do not accept it

 

[AACJ]

.

 

[Blade]

I guess according to man yes. but to God? Nope

 

[redleghunter]

It says "into everlasting fire." Presumably people will understand this in the same sense that they understand similar terms in the NT. If you advocate "literal" interpretation of the creed, after all, you end up with works salvation, since it says that judgement is based entirely upon our deeds.

I would think that would be a more serious issue than the reference to everlasting fire.

I think the portion on deeds surely reinforces the perseverance of the saints.

 

[Tra Phull]

"CREEDAL" to me means Apostles Creed and Nicene Creed AS IT ORIGINALLY WAS CREATED in the revision in 381 AD

iow, I don't consider Athanasian Creed AS "CREEDAL"

 

[hedrick]

I think the portion on deeds surely reinforces the perseverance of the saints.

It's hard to know. Because this didn't come from a council there's no context. Indeed that's one major objection. On what basis did the anonymous author claim the authority to anathematize anyone?

 

[Tra Phull]

And I don't buy into FILIOQUE.

In fact, the real creed is carved into the steps of the Vatican without FILIOQUE.

 

[redleghunter]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.

There was a good discussion of UR a few months back here:

Opiate of the Theologians

 

[Jonaitis]

The Athanasian Creed clearly says that belief in eternal punishment is a requirement for salvation. Said Creed has been accepted in the past by the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, the Anglican Church and the Lutheran Church. Where does this leave Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans and Lutherans who simply cannot profess a belief in eternal punishment, as well as all other Christians who in good conscience, are unable to confess such a belief?

I am reminded of a Lutheran service that I attended 30 years ago in a Midwestern suburban community. That Sunday there was a guest pastor and he chose to use the Athanasian Creed. The congregation was reading the Creed aloud together, but when the time came to read the line about eternal punishment, 95+% of the congregation went silent and refused to read said line aloud.

You know, that is a good question.

I think most of us are familiar with James Strong (1822-1894) who is credited with the concordance named after him. I've heard that he was an annihilationist. It would be hard to believe for some to think that he was still degenerate and lost for his lack of belief in a real biblical, eternal hell.

However, from how I understand the biblical concept of hell, it is most foundational in our understanding of some important truths, including the atonement of Christ and the point of the resurrection from the dead. It is a way to compromise the justice of God, which in turn forfeits the reality of divine mercy toward sinners.

I firmly believe that a lack of belief in an eternal punishment has a deeper problem rooted in that person's understanding of the gospel, which is an essential part of the gospel.

 

[Tra Phull]

If one needs an anonymous author of an alleged creed that was not authorized by a council to try to bolster "perseverance of the saints" - well - there ya go.

 

[redleghunter]

And I don't buy into FILIOQUE.

In fact, the real creed is carved into the steps of the Vatican without FILIOQUE.

I believe the Roman Catholic Church cites John 20:22 for the “proceeds from the Father and Son.”

John 20: NASB

21So Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.” 22And when He had said this, He breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[redleghunter]

If one needs an anonymous author of an alleged creed that was not authorized by a council to try to bolster "perseverance of the saints" - well - there ya go.

Was I “bolstering?”