Are those accounts in "Passion of the Christ" accurate?

[curious mike]

Hey guys, I looked at this movie for the first time over the w/e and it simply horrified me. Just checking to see if Mel Gibson used accurate info from the bible for everything in there?

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Mike My opinion is that certain parts were meant symbolically for what was happening spiritually. And I understand that how they tortured Jesus was a lot worse.

 

[curious mike]

And I understand that how they tortured Jesus was a lot worse.

Worse than that? How could Jesus have been tortured any worse than what was shown in that movie?

Also that led me to thinking that the Jewish sages were blamed for the crucifixion and rightly so but since it was the Romans who done it, why would they be exempt from blame and why would Rome in particular be the center of Christianity?

 

[com7fy8]

Worse than that? How could Jesus have been tortured any worse than what was shown in that movie?

Among other things, an early scripture says something about a person's beard being torn out. In the movie they did not tear out His beard. And an early scripture says someone is so disfigured that we can not recognize him. In the movie His face is recognizable.

Also that led me to thinking that the Jewish sages were blamed for the crucifixion and rightly so but since it was the Romans who done it, why would they be exempt from blame and why would Rome in particular be the center of Christianity?

Evil people did what they did to Jesus. Being Jewish or Roman is not what makes any real difference. We don't blame Jews or Romans for what others did.

Also, there have been Jews and Romans who have honored and obeyed Jesus and suffered for Him.

Jesus is our center.

 

[miamited]

Hi mike,

You have a couple of questions and I'll give you my take on it. According to historians, the act of flogging and crucifixion was a pretty horrible way to treat the human body. Most historians claim that the whip used for flogging had bits of bone and shards of pottery that would have literally torn and gashed anyone's skin to shreds. So, it's likely, if these historical accounts are to be believed, that the flogging of Jesus was portrayed fairly accurately in the movie. We are told that Jesus was unable to carry his cross out to Golgotha and that another man was commanded to carry it for him. This would seem to indicate that Jesus was in a very weak state. As far as the nailing to the cross beams. Again we depend on the reports of historians that it was likely carried out pretty much as it is depicted in the movie. The person would be nailed to the crossbeams while the crossbeams lay on the ground and then hoisted up and set in a post hole as a warning to other possible criminals that they surely wouldn't want to be involved in any kind of activity that might land them the same fate.

As to who we can blame for Jesus' death? We are told that it was the Jewish crowd, being agitated by the Jewish leaders, who called for Pilate to crucify him. The Scriptures tell us that it was Pilate's will that he be flogged and released, but the body of Jews in attendance made it impossible for him to stop there. So, while it was certainly Roman soldiers under the command of Pilate who actually nailed him to that cross, it seems to have been the responsibility of the crowd gathered at the time who prevented Jesus from merely being flogged and released.

As to Rome being the center of christianity? I'm not convinced that it is. It is certainly the center of the Roman Catholic form of 'christian' faith. But there are questions as to whether that brand of 'christian' faith is really what God is asking of us.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[miamited]

Hi again mike,

In my previous post, I wrote:

As to who we can blame for Jesus' death? We are told that it was the Jewish crowd, being agitated by the Jewish leaders, who called for Pilate to crucify him. The Scriptures tell us that it was Pilate's will that he be flogged and released, but the body of Jews in attendance made it impossible for him to stop there. So, while it was certainly Roman soldiers under the command of Pilate who actually nailed him to that cross, it seems to have been the responsibility of the crowd gathered at the time who prevented Jesus from merely being flogged and released.

While I believe this to be a true statement, we know that it was really God who demanded the sacrifice of His Son for the sin of man. God raised up a nation of people to do His bidding. The children of Israel wrote the Scriptures and brought about the fulfillment of the law. The shedding of blood that atoned for sin. All done just as God said it needed to be done, by the people that God was using to be His people.

So, if we want to look back all the way to first cause in this issue of responsibility for Jesus' death. It was God and it was all laid out for us long before Jesus was even born. That's just how much God loves us.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[FireDragon76]

The Passion of the Christ draws from Catholic mysticism and traditions.

 

[curious mike]

While I believe this to be a true statement, we know that it was really God who demanded the sacrifice of His Son for the sin of man.

Great info guys, thanks! The above statement I have heard before but can't recall seeing it in either the OT or NT, can you or anyone link me to that please?

 

[Rubiks]

There's some extrabiblical stuff in Passion of the Christ that draws from Catholic traditions.

 

[miamited]

Hi mike,

Jesus himself tells his disciples this:
“We are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and the teachers of the law. They will condemn him to death and will hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked and flogged and crucified. On the third day he will be raised to life!”

Daniel wrote this about the 'Annointed One': After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing. (Some translations say 'cut off').

Paul wrote this to the Roman believers: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Notice that Jesus knew that it wouldn't actually be the Jews who would kill him, but that they would hand him over to the Gentiles to be mocked, flogged and crucified. All of these references, except for Paul's, occurred before Jesus was actually put to death.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Albion]

There's some extrabiblical stuff in Passion of the Christ that draws from Catholic traditions.

Like what? The ferocity of the flogging and the crucifixion isn't a matter of Catholic traditions. We have the historical record for all of that stuff.

 

[curious mike]

Paul wrote this to the Roman believers: God presented Christ as a sacrifice of atonement, through the shedding of his blood—to be received by faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished—

Right so Jesus knew what was going to happen, we all know this but it was only Paul's statement above which told us the reason for the crucifixion, is this correct please?

 

[JackRT]

The Passion of the Christ draws from Catholic mysticism and traditions.

Most of Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" is based on the delirious ravings of a sickly German nun, Catherine Emerich, who lived about two centuries ago. The film is neither accurate to history nor to the Bible. I regard it as the pornography of violence.

 

[Albion]

If the question is "Was that only Paul's personal opinion about this?"...then, no, it's the view of Christians generally and almost any church you can name.

Of course, that doesn't answer anything about the motivation of the Romans or the Hebrew leaders who actually "pulled the trigger."

 

[Albion]

Most of Gibson's "Passion of the Christ" is based on the delirious ravings of a sickly German nun, Catherine Emerich, who lived about two centuries ago. The film is neither accurate to history nor to the Bible. I regard it as the pornography of violence.

How so? I'm not rejecting what you wrote here, but what in particular are you referring to? If it's the violence of the flogging and the crucifixion, I have doubts, but if it's something else...?

 

[FireDragon76]

The outline of the Passion of the Christ loosely follows the pattern of the Stations of the Cross, which was a medieval practice that was actually started by Francis of Assisi.

 

[Rubiks]

Like what? The ferocity of the flogging and the crucifixion isn't a matter of Catholic traditions. We have the historical record for all of that stuff.

I said that there's SOME things in Passion of the Christ that are extrabiblical. I'm not a Catholic, but I know Mel Gibson is and that some scenes are drawn from Catholic tradition.

 

[miamited]

Right so Jesus knew what as going to happen, we will know this but was only Paul's statement above which told us the reason for the crucifixion, is this correct please?

Hi mike,

Yes, Paul's writings make it all the most clear. In his letter to the Romans that we now separate as chapter 5, Paul wrote that Christ died for sin. Also that Christ died for us.

In his letter to the Corinthian believers, he writes: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

In his letter to the Ephesian believers, he wrote: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,

The writer of Hebrews writes: But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself. And then: And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews has quite a lot to offer about the sacrifice of Christ. It was, after all, written to the Jews and was using their known and practiced sacrificial system to explain how Jesus was the final sacrifice that the law had always pointed to.

The we find John also confirming that Jesus died as the sacrifice to God for our sin. In 1John we find: He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Finally, John makes it crystal clear that it was all the plan of God: This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

I think that just about covers it in all the fullness of the Scriptures.

God bless you,
In Christ, ted

 

[Albion]

I said that there's SOME things in Passion of the Christ that are extrabiblical. I'm not a Catholic, but I know Mel Gibson is and that some scenes are drawn from Catholic tradition.

All right, so which ones are you referring to?

 

[FireDragon76]

I said that there's SOME things in Passion of the Christ that are extrabiblical. I'm not a Catholic, but I know Mel Gibson is and that some scenes are drawn from Catholic tradition.

Yup. Like Pilate's wife's dream.

Vivid imagery of Christ's death is often part of western Christian piety in general. Julian of Norwich's Revelations of Divine Love is full of graphic, vivid images of the Passion as well, though it is a book much loved by a certain kind of mainline Protestant or Catholic of a mystical persuasion (who sometimes like to make alot out of Julian's description of God as "Mother").