Are they with Jesus now or asleep until he raise them later?

timothyu said:

Then you say.. He has promised to bring it down to this earth per the end of Revelation. This is going to be a very 'real' future event with the new Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven from God,

A world of our own, not Heaven

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Yes, but it will be Heaven literally on earth, because like Apostle John said remember, "God is a Spirit". (John 4:24).

He has only allowed me to start understanding that in the past couple of decades, with Scripture like Genesis 18 & 19, when "three men" appear at Abraham's tent door out of nowhere, and Abraham bows and calls one of the three men Lord. Then only The Lord is standing there with Abraham, with his haggling about the number of righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah. Then the two angels show up at Lot's house to pull them out. In both examples earthly food is prepared for them, and they ate. That one Abraham bowed to and called 'Lord' had to have been Lord Jesus back in the Old Testament, even though He was not born yet through woman's womb into the flesh. That reveals how the dimension of Spirit can exist upon this earth.

The example in Genesis 2 with God's Garden of Eden is another clue, because wherever God's Eden is, that is His Abode. There in Genesis 2 we know it was upon this earth with Adam and Eve, because God's River there flowed out of His Garden and fed four other rivers upon the earth, two of those rivers still exist on earth today (Euphrates and Tigris).

And then Apostle Paul reminds us to be hospitable to strangers in Hebrews 13, for some have entertained angels and didn't know it. So really, we all may have seen a angel at one time or another in our lives, and simply didn't know it.

Davy said:

Yes, but it will be Heaven literally on earth,

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Yes because as Jesus stated in His Gospel of the Kingdom that churches like to ignore, God will once again live among us and rule rather than man trying to run the show. That still does not mean we go to Heaven. The 'in earth' Kingdom and the domain of the elohim still remain separate. "Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven".

Davy said:

Yes, but it will be Heaven literally on earth, because like Apostle John said remember, "God is a Spirit". (John 4:24).

He has only allowed me to start understanding that in the past couple of decades, with Scripture like Genesis 18 & 19, when "three men" appear at Abraham's tent door out of nowhere, and Abraham bows and calls one of the three men Lord. Then only The Lord is standing there with Abraham, with his haggling about the number of righteous in Sodom and Gomorrah. Then the two angels show up at Lot's house to pull them out. In both examples earthly food is prepared for them, and they ate. That one Abraham bowed to and called 'Lord' had to have been Lord Jesus back in the Old Testament, even though He was not born yet through woman's womb into the flesh. That reveals how the dimension of Spirit can exist upon this earth.

The example in Genesis 2 with God's Garden of Eden is another clue, because wherever God's Eden is, that is His Abode. There in Genesis 2 we know it was upon this earth with Adam and Eve, because God's River there flowed out of His Garden and fed four other rivers upon the earth, two of those rivers still exist on earth today (Euphrates and Tigris).

And then Apostle Paul reminds us to be hospitable to strangers in Hebrews 13, for some have entertained angels and didn't know it. So really, we all may have seen a angel at one time or another in our lives, and simply didn't know it.

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Do you consider this a remade Earth, after it has been consumed with fire?

timothyu said:

Yes because as Jesus stated in His Gospel of the Kingdom that churches like to ignore, God will once again live among us and rule rather than man trying to run the show. That still does not mean we go to Heaven. The 'in earth' Kingdom and the domain of the elohim still remain separate. "Thy will be done in earth as it is in Heaven".

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What God's Word reveals in 'actuality'... is that the full Godhead is coming here, to earth, to live among us, literally.

In the Ezekiel 40 thru 47 future Millennium chapters, one of the gates of entry to the holy Jerusalem, on earth, will be shut for only Lord Jesus to enter through, suggesting that He will be back and forth between Heaven and earth during... that Millennium time with a temple on earth in the middle east.

But after the future "lake of fire" event at the end of Christ's future 1,000 years reign, per Rev.20, then the full Godhead will return to earth, and there will no more be a temple, as The Father and The Son will be the temple thereof...

Rev 21:22-24
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
KJV

Don't ask me how... that will be possible. God doesn't ask us 'how' it can be possible, but just to believe it as written.

Now the fact that angels have visited this earth and appeared to God's servants, ate man's food, etc., that reveals the fact... that the 'heavenly' dimension CAN manifest right here, upon this earth. And once again, we are not asked how we think that possible, but to believe it per His written Word, even with the example of Lord Jesus after His resurrection being able to just appear and disappear out of nowhere right in the midst of His disciples. Now why... do you think He would have that event written down as witnesses by His Apostles?

John 20:19
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, "Peace be unto you."
KJV

timothyu said:

Then you say.. He has promised to bring it down to this earth per the end of Revelation. This is going to be a very 'real' future event with the new Jerusalem coming down out of Heaven from God,

A world of our own, not Heaven

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But Rev 21 and 22 says Earth is where the throne of God and Tree of life will be. It is where Paradise will be according to Rev 2.

Davy said:

What God's Word reveals in 'actuality'... is that the full Godhead is coming here, to earth, to live among us, literally.

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True but that is after the 1000 years has ended - as we see in Rev 21 and 22.
During the 1000 years the saints are in heaven - as we see in John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:13-18, Matt 24:29-31

Our paradise. Like in Eden Heaven and earth overlap.

timothyu said:

Our paradise. Like in Eden Heaven and earth overlap.

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God's Paradise is His Eden...

Notice where "Eden" is located per the following Scriptures... and ask yourself, "is Eden here on the earth, or somewhere else beyond earth?"

Gen 2:8
8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom He had formed.
KJV

The above suggests that God might have formed the man Adam first from somewhere else on earth before He put Adam in his garden 'eastward' of Eden. Notice the location "eastward" in Eden especially.

Gen 2:10-15
10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
KJV

Notice the waters that "water the garden" originate... "out of Eden", suggesting the 'garden' and 'Eden' are two separate locations.

Gen 3:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
KJV

That means the man Adam was placed right in God's Garden of Eden, which is where God is. The Greek Septuagint has the Greek word for 'paradise' instead of KJV "Eden" here.

Gen 3:22-24
22 And the LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of Us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:"
23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
KJV

Adam was sent out from the "garden of Eden" to till the ground (suggested outside the garden of Eden).

That reveals that God's Eden (Paradise) was once upon this earth, with a Garden, and God's Rivers that fed His Garden flowed out to feed 4 other rivers upon the earth, two of which still exist on earth today, the Euphrates and the Tigris (Hiddekel).

That info coupled with the Ezekiel 47 revealing of the return... of God's River back to this earth, IN THE MIDDLE EAST, for Christ's future Millennial reign, reveals the River of the Waters of Life is a REAL RIVER in God's future Kingdom on earth.

Mark Quayle said:

Do you consider this a remade Earth, after it has been consumed with fire?

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The KJV of what Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10 about God's consuming fire can be misleading. The KJV word "elements" there in the Greek actually means 'an orderly arrangement', like a world earth age. Peter said man's works will be burned up by God's consuming fire on that day, which is accurate per the PREVIOUS DESTRUCTIONS God brought that Peter also covered in that 2 Peter 3 chapter.

So... did God literally destroy the WHOLE EARTH back at the time of the flood of Noah? No. And if you believe the Gap idea about Genesis 1 as I do, did God literally destroy the whole earth back when He ended that old world because of Satan's original rebellion? No. And nor will this earth be totally destroyed on that coming "day of the Lord" either, and we 'know'... this as fact. How?

It is because HOW Lord Jesus returns back to this earth on that "day of the Lord" is detailed in the Zechariah 14 chapter in the Old Testament prophets. It is written there that Jesus' feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives (where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1), and bring all the saints with Him there, and begin His reign over the nations of the earth. Now how... is all that going to be possible if there is no more earth???

God's consuming fire is thus going to wipe the SURFACE of the earth clean of the things of man's creation. And the things that God created will remain. With Elijah the prophet we have Old Testament examples of how accurate... God's fire from Heaven upon the earth can be, as God rained fire down from Heaven to burn up the fifty soldiers that were sent to capture Elijah, and that was done right in front of Elijah's presence.

Davy said:

The KJV of what Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3:10 about God's consuming fire can be misleading. The KJV word "elements" there in the Greek actually means 'an orderly arrangement', like a world earth age. Peter said man's works will be burned up by God's consuming fire on that day, which is accurate per the PREVIOUS DESTRUCTIONS God brought that Peter also covered in that 2 Peter 3 chapter.

So... did God literally destroy the WHOLE EARTH back at the time of the flood of Noah? No. And if you believe the Gap idea about Genesis 1 as I do, did God literally destroy the whole earth back when He ended that old world because of Satan's original rebellion? No. And nor will this earth be totally destroyed on that coming "day of the Lord" either, and we 'know'... this as fact. How?

It is because HOW Lord Jesus returns back to this earth on that "day of the Lord" is detailed in the Zechariah 14 chapter in the Old Testament prophets. It is written there that Jesus' feet will touch down upon the Mount of Olives (where He ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1), and bring all the saints with Him there, and begin His reign over the nations of the earth. Now how... is all that going to be possible if there is no more earth???

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I didn't mean, disassemble the atoms, nor even to shatter the globe. But I was told as a kid, it would be burned, and then remade. I was wondering if you thought the New Jerusalem would be set upon that new, remade, earth. I have not settled on one eschatology, but I do speculate that the New Jerusalem is not only a place for God's own, but in fact IS those people, the Bride of Christ.

Mark Quayle said:

I didn't mean, disassemble the atoms, nor even to shatter the globe. But I was told as a kid, it would be burned, and then remade. I was wondering if you thought the New Jerusalem would be set upon that new, remade, earth. I have not settled on one eschatology, but I do speculate that the New Jerusalem is not only a place for God's own, but in fact IS those people, the Bride of Christ.

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Many wrongly interpret 2 Peter 3:10 with the elements melting as a full destruction of the whole earth, so I'm having to address that a lot.

Detail of how that burning will happen on the last day of this world is spread out in several Books of God's Word, including the Old Testament. Here is a detail by Apostle Paul...

Heb 12:25-29
25 See that ye refuse not Him That speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him That spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him That speaketh from heaven:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now He hath promised, saying, "Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven."

27 And this word, "Yet once more", signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

29 For our God is a consuming fire.
KJV

Thus that day is to include a great shaking of this earth also with God's consuming fire. And there it even reveals that God did that level of shaking of this earth once before, but not heaven. This next time heaven will be included.

Here's another example of that coming day, upon some of the wicked on earth...

Zech 14:12
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
KJV

2 Kings 1 about Elijah and the captain and his fifty soldiers applies to how accurate God's fire from Heaven can be.

Another example of how accurate God's fire can be is with Elijah again in 1 Kings 18 in a contest with the prophets of Baal to show show Who The real GOD is. The idea was to setup an altar with sacrifice and call on their god to burn it up. The Baal prophets went first, and cried to Baal, cut theirselves, etc., and nothing happened. Then at the time of Israel's evening sacrifice, Elijah prayed and setup an altar and sacrifice, and had his servants pour water upon it and the wood 3 times. Then Elijah prayed, and God brought fire down upon the altar and burned the sacrifice up, and the wood, and all the water that was in the trench around the altar. Nothing else was touched.

In Daniel 3, we have yet another example of the accuracy of God's consuming fire. Nebuchadnezzar's prophets tricked Neb into setting up a golden idol image of himself, and demand that all bow in worship to it at the sound of the musical instrument. Daniel and his fellows Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego refused to bow, so Daniel was cast into the lion's den, but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego were cast into a hot fiery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary. When Neb looked over into the furnace he saw FOUR MEN, and the fourth man had the form like The Son of God. Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego came out of that hot fiery furnace and their clothes didn't even smell of smoke. Yet when Neb's servants just got near the furnace, they were incinerated instantly.

That hot furnace event with Jesus in it with them is as an example for us on the last day of this world when God will bring His consuming fire to burn the things of man off the surface of this earth. For the wicked it will not be good for them, but for those faithful waiting for Jesus Christ to come, we will be under His protection through it. We do not have to go anywhere, for God's fire will not harm His children.