Are these guys canonical?

[Justin-H.S.]

They are western rite and the website looks iffy. They don't seem like "True Orthodox," but they seem to want to be in communion with the rest of the Church... They have a parish in my city, so I was curious.

The Orthodox Archdiocese of America (theorthodoxchurch.org)

 

[tampasteve]

They are western rite and the website looks iffy. They don't seem like "True Orthodox," but they seem to want to be in communion with the rest of the Church... They have a parish in my city, so I was curious.

The Orthodox Archdiocese of America (theorthodoxchurch.org)

From the website:

We have come out of the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia to more freely spread the Orthodox Catholic Faith in America.

The Archdiocese has chosen not to join with the organization known as the Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States of America in order to better preserve the Orthodox Faith and protect it from many administrative, phyletistic, and political issues the Assembly has.

With whom are you in communion?
We are in spiritual communion with all Canonical Orthodox of good will as we hold the Orthodox Faith. However, they may choose not to be in communion with us.

What Calendar do you use?
Our Jurisdiction honors the Orthodox Paschalion together with other Old Calendar Churches.

It's not really my place to say for sure, but it does not look like they are really in communion with anyone.

 

[All4Christ]

They are western rite and the website looks iffy. They don't seem like "True Orthodox," but they seem to want to be in communion with the rest of the Church... They have a parish in my city, so I was curious.

The Orthodox Archdiocese of America (theorthodoxchurch.org)

Nope. They are not in communion with the canonical Orthodox Church.

Jurisdictions | Assembly of Canonical Orthodox Bishops of the United States of America

EDIT: I concur with Htacianas. It looks like a complex history with various times going in and out of canonical status (or questionable status). I’d change my response to say that I don’t think they are canonical - and at best it is questionable so I’d wait until someone above me says it is ok.

 

[HTacianas]

They are western rite and the website looks iffy. They don't seem like "True Orthodox," but they seem to want to be in communion with the rest of the Church... They have a parish in my city, so I was curious.

The Orthodox Archdiocese of America (theorthodoxchurch.org)

I've heard of them before. It seems they tried to declare themselves autocephalous at some point. But autocephaly isn't something that's claimed, it has to be granted. If I remember right no Church ever granted it to them. That leaves them as either an apostate group or simply still under the jurisdiction of the Church they came from. I remember it was confusing for me to understand just who they are. Whether they are canonical or not is way above my paygrade.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

I just wanted a second opinion because I was tempted to pop in this Sunday.

 

[All4Christ]

I just wanted a second opinion because I was tempted to pop in this Sunday.

It sounds interesting.

The Antiochian Western Rite I visited once was definitely interesting and worth visiting. I’d just be careful about communion if you aren’t sure. A second opinion makes perfect sense.

There is an area we were thinking of moving to where barely any Orthodox churches are available to attend. (There is one church but it looks like most of the service is in Greek - which isn’t really a good option for us. We want something in English that we understand). There was a non-canonical Orthodox mission there. We were disappointed to find our that they were not canonical.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I just wanted a second opinion because I was tempted to pop in this Sunday.

glad you were cautious.

 

[ArmyMatt]

With whom are you in communion?
We are in spiritual communion with all Canonical Orthodox of good will as we hold the Orthodox Faith. However, they may choose not to be in communion with us.

a dead giveaway they aren’t legit.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

a dead giveaway they aren’t legit.

It seems like they broke away from ROCOR due to Orthodox drama, but still want to remain in communion with those they broke from. It's like they want it both ways.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It seems like they broke away from ROCOR due to Orthodox drama, but still want to remain in communion with those they broke from. It's like they want it both ways.

yep, schismatics are like that

 

[E.C.]

That's a very late 1990s HTML webpage. Haven't seen one of those in a while.



Just based on a quick perusal of their website it looks like they are what I'd call "Fake-odox". Not quite on the level of people who see the word Orthodox and try to "recreate" it a.la. bad LARP-ing. With their stuff on the Western Rite and claiming to have been part of ROCOR it is possible they were Western Rite within ROCOR. I don't know the specifics on the drama, but I do remember that when Metropolitan Hilarion became First Hierarch of ROCOR he put a moratorium on new Western Rite parishes and Bishop Jerome, who oversaw their Western Rite, was forced to retire. If these guys were legitimately canonical Orthodox I'd guess that they were maybe Western Rite folks who left ROCOR after said moratorium at best.

But even then, pre-reconciliation ROCOR was never known for their organization. Many fake-odox groups claim they were part of ROCOR, but in fact never were.

 

[Not David]

I hate how tricking those groups are, especially with quotes from St. John of Shanghai.

 

[buzuxi02]

There are no autonomous or autocephalous western rite jurisdictions.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I hate how tricking those groups are, especially with quotes from St. John of Shanghai.

it’s because they usually have no saints of their own.

 

[E.C.]

I hate how tricking those groups are, especially with quotes from St. John of Shanghai.

Anyone can quote anybody.

So far, the only ROCOR bishop to be canonized is indeed St John of Shanghai and San Francisco. If you see anyone calling Metropolitans Filaret or Vitaly a saint they are usually schismatics from ROCOR either before the reconciliation or afterwards. Western Rite quoting St John, usually schismatic or fake-odox.


EDIT: While ROCOR did start a canonization commission for Metropolitan Filaret back in 2012, as of 2022 he has yet to be formally canonized by any canonical Orthodox Church including ROCOR.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

They’re a sub group of a breakaway of a splinter group of a reformed Orthodox subsidiary