Just as a matter of clarity, Hitler was clearly not pro-Christian simply because he was European, or Baptized as a German Catholic (you shall know them by their fruits) and many genuine Christians in Germany at the time fought against his form of terrorism even to their own demise, others hid Jewish families and helped them escape as often as circumstance allowed. Others were lamely sucked into his propaganda plan. It was no secret that Hitler hated Christians at the time, Goebbels again once said,
"The Fuhrer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay…It is a branch of the Jewish race... Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed."
"The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing…the Bible in Germany…”
Not sure why you didn't just post the full quote "The National Church demands immediate cessation of the publishing and dissemination of the
Bible", which was part of Alfred Rosenburg's 30 point program for the National Reich Church. Not a shocking point from him, given he actually was known for his extreme hatred of Christianity. He was Hitler's stand in for running the Nazi party while he was in prison, and Hitler appointed him to that position because he thought the guy wouldn't become all that popular. Fair enough, plenty of people found him distasteful. While Alfred Rosenburg was appointed to a few high up political offices, it is noted that his overall influence was fairly minimal.
"On the altars there must be nothing but 'Mein Kampf' and to the left of the altar a sword.”
More from Alfred Rosenburg. You do realize this wasn't actually enacted, right? The bible was not taken out of German churches (at least, not the New Testament).
"On the day of its foundation, the Christian Cross must be removed from all churches, cathedrals and chapels...and it must be superseded by the only unconquerable symbol, the swastika."
Still Alfred Rosenburg.
These quotations are taken from The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, by William L. Shirer, in the section entitled "Triumph and Consolidation", in the subsection "The Persecution of the Christian Churches". Please do not take my word for this but rather go and explore these things for yourself before it is too late.
Oh, I did, which is why I know all this is from Alfred Rosenburg, not Hitler himself. Hitler tried to play it safe too much when it came to Christianity to dare do something that extreme. You don't maintain popularity in a majority Christian nation by opposing Christianity in your legislation.
Hitler himself expressed his disdain for Christians and Christianity quite openly later on. The dozen or so times he made reference to God and the/or the Church early on, he was merely doing so as a propaganda device to manipulate the masses who were mostly nominal Christians who had been greatly liberalized by the popular so-called “Critical-School” which though claiming to be scientific and historical was and is neither. In Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944 (published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc. first edition, 1953). a translation of the "Bormann-Vermerke"!
According to Bormann (Hitler's personal secretary), Hitler said
“The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.” (p 6 & 7)
And he would say this to his secretary why? Be sure to note that quote implies a belief in souls, which is generally not something atheists believe in.
“Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. “(p 43)
“The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State.” (p 49-52)
"It is deplorable that the Bible should have been translated into German, and that the whole of the German people should have thus become exposed to the whole of this Jewish mumbo-jumbo. So long as the wisdom, particularly of the Old Testament, remained exclusively in the Latin of the Church, there was little danger that sensible people would become the victims of illusions as the result of studying the Bible. But since the Bible became common property, a whole heap of people have found opened to them lines of religious thought which - particularly in conjunction with the German characteristic of persistent and somewhat melancholy meditation - as often as not turned them into religious maniacs. When one recollects further that the Catholic Church has elevated to the status of Saints a whole number of madmen, one realizes why movements such as that of the Flagellants came inevitably into existence in the Middle Ages in Germany. "As a sane German, one is flabbergasted to think that German human beings could have let themselves be brought to such a pass by Jewish filth and priestly twaddle, that they were little different from the howling dervish of the Turks and the negroes, at whom we laugh so scornfully." (p 543)
"Why not [make peace with the churches]? That will not prevent me from totally uprooting Christianity in Germany and eliminating it lock, stock and barrel. It is, however, decisive for our people whether they have the Judeo-Christian faith and its flabby morality of sympathy, or a strong, heroic faith in god in nature, in god in one's own people, in god in one's own fate, in one's own blood. ... One is either a Christian or a German. One can't be both."
Yeah, because people talk like that in casual conversation
Yes, the status of Hitler's personal religious beliefs are questionable, but by no means is he demonstrably an atheist. And frankly, even if he was, relevance? You know that not every terrible person in history was an atheist, or even a non-Christian. Furthermore, it's demonstrable that being a Christian doesn't make people less likely to commit crime or be degenerates.
Here are the Lyrics to a Hitler Youth marching song (Grunberger, A Social History) recorded in The Third Reich: a New History, Pan, 2001
“We follow not Christ, but Horst Wessel,
Away with incense and Holy Water,
The Church can go hang for all we care,
The Swastika brings salvation on Earth.”
No Sarah, you must not believe the lies the post-Darwinians have told you.
Uh, it wasn't evolution supporters that dictated my education on WWII history. Why would I go to people working in biology for a history lessen about Hitler?
Also, that source of yours is the only one I can find that has that Hitler Youth marching song. It definitely wasn't part of the official marching song of the Hitler Youth or any other Nazi organization.
Nazi songs - Wikipedia It is also a bit too short to be a marching song by itself. This song that was extensively used by the Nazi SS has Christian influence
Wenn alle untreu werden - Wikipedia This isn't a part of Vorwärts! Vorwärts! schmettern die hellen Fanfaren, which is another Hitler Youth song. If that ever was in a Nazi marching song, it must not have been a popular one. The closest song I can find to the one you are presenting is Horst-Wessel-Lied, and the only similarity is that Horst Wessel is mentioned in the song you posted, and his name is in the title of this song. Additionally, the only Nazi songs of this nature that I find that even mention whom the singer is supposed to follow state to follow the Reich, Hitler, or Germany.
They want you to think if possible that Hitler was a Christian sympathizer so you will think Christians are the fascists and post-Darwinians are opposed to his philosophy, but the opposite is true.
No, I would think that Hitler was a Christian fascist, not that fascism and Christianity have any connection with each other. Although, it is worth noting that fascists viewed communism (a political ideology that generally opposes all religion) as a threat, with Hitler's and Stalin's truce ending quite quickly. Furthermore, evolution doesn't have any philosophy. No scientific theory in biology does. In fact, the only scientific fields I can think of that would even have theories related to philosophy are Anthropology (which would study the role philosophy played in human societies), and Psychology (study how personal philosophies develop over time as we age). Philosophy itself is not actually a scientific field.
Hitler was a Darwinian and was nowhere near to being a Christian.
There's no real way to tell either way. The only person that can clarify Hitler's personal beliefs is Hitler, and he's been dead for decades. But, this debate is ultimately a waste of time, really. Hitler being an atheist evolution supporter wouldn't make atheism or evolution immoral inherently, even if he attempted to use them as a justification for his actions. Heck, why would I mention that Stalin was an open atheist if I thought that some bad people being atheists made atheism as a whole immoral? The majority of people, both theists and atheists, do not commit crimes. The majority of humanity mostly stays neutral, with small acts of kindness and malice throughout the week. The majority of evolution supporters do not condone Hitler's actions, even at the time at which he committed them.
He was fulfilling the dream and expressed intent of people like Huxley, Spencer, Nietzsche, Sanger, and all the other atheist social prophets of Europe and America of his day!
Sanger: Can't confirm or deny if she was an atheist or a theist. Heavily criticized religious arguments against birth control, but also presented religious people that supported the use of birth control in a positive light. Based on her actions, I would say that she certainly wasn't strongly religious, if at all. No connection with evolution, extreme distaste of the actions of the Nazi regime. Openly OPPOSED forms of birth control through the killing of people, making it ironic that 4 years after her death, Planned Parenthood would begin to provide abortions.
Aldous Huxley: Agnostic spiritualist heavily associated with the Vedanta Society of Southern California (Indian religion). A social satirist that often wrote about dystopian futures. No connection with evolution, eugeneics, or the Nazi regime. No implications or statements of hating Christianity or religion in general.
Friedrich Nietzsche: Philosophy deems Christianity harmful to people, as it demands that people ignore innate desires. Died in 1900. No connection to evolution. No connection to the Nazi regime. Likely an atheist. Most people have a strong reaction to his philosophy. Personally, it's not for me.
Herbert Spencer: Literally the only name you listed related to evolution at all. Influence dropped drastically after 1900, so much so that I heavily doubt he influenced the Nazis. This is the guy that coined the "survival of the fittest" term, so I do dislike that for how easy it is to misinterpret. This guy was a deist.
By the way, you cannot claim that any of these people were responsible for Hitler wanting to kill off Jewish people. It's highly unlikely that he even read anything by Sanger or Spencer. Huxley's first published novel had the same publishing year as when Hitler became the head of the Nazi party (1921) so his influence would have likely been minimal at most. Huxley used some of his excess earnings from his novels to transport Jewish people out of Nazi germany, so definitely not a Nazi sympathizer. So, out of the people you mentioned, the only person that it would be possible to state had a great influence on Hitler was Nietzsche... so where's Hitler quoting Nietzsche or his philosophy?
He was only making what they believed was good for the human race, come to pass (which of course was the Caucasian race…even though science knows no such thing as race).
It sincerely wouldn't matter to me if Hitler was a homosexual atheist that got his kicks from dressing up as an infant and crapping himself. However, I would need evidence that supported he was that to believe it. Additionally, very few people seek to harm humanity as a whole, and even fewer with that mindset manage to hold a political office. Hitler's "ends" will never justify his means.
Hitler's actions and upbringing heavily suggest that he was Catholic. Then, many years later, people close to him claimed he had anti-Christian sentiments. Makes for great book writing, I am sure they got a lot of money for it. I'm skeptical of the accounts.
However, it annoys me that you muddy the names of dead people that had nothing to do with the Nazis. Seriously, instead of getting a list of "offenders" off of some Christian apologetics site, how about actually looking up atheists and academics that served the Nazi regime? There were quite a few religion haters that I saw while looking stuff up. However, I think we have derailed this thread enough. It's not about Hitler, you know, it's about transitional fossils.
