Are there really unalienable rights?

[Eudaimonist]

Well thats why I call myself a relativist you have to ask evil for whom? Its agent relative. If 99 lose and one wins, as opposed to 99 win and one loses, aren't we supporting collectivism as opposed to individualism if we go with the majority option?

No, not necessarily. That depends on your reasons for supporting the 99 (whatever that means). If you are supporting the 99 because they are individuals who are morally entitled to have their individual rights respected, that is supporting individualism, not collectivism. I just hope that you aren't being inconsistent about the 1 that was left out. You should be supporting him too, though of course I don't mean supporting him for dictator. You should defend his individual rights as well, and just as vigorously.

So, if Big brother wins at everyone elses expense, and value is agent centred, is he personally obliged to change his political philosophy...? And be trodden by the horse and chariot of free society.

If you are asking for my opinion, you are speaking nonsense if rejecting someone as dictator means that the would-be dictator is being "oppressed" by a free society. Rejecting oppression is not the same thing as oppressing. No one has a right to oppress, and they aren't being oppressed for being prevented from oppressing others.

Values are agent-centered, but not in the sense of being a matter of pure opinion. One's values may be justified or not. They aren't justified merely because one has them.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[quatona]

Yes and no.
For certain aspects of human life, there seems to be consensus: health, friendship, material security, etc.

How exactly does a broad agreement in opinions point to them not being opinions?

 

[durangodawood]

How exactly does a broad agreement in opinions point to them not being opinions?

We can study, using objective type methods, the things that make humans happy and healthy.

I think the broad consensus represents the sum of observations of human living, moreso than a lucky coincidence of opinion.

 

[quatona]

We can study, using objective type methods, the things that make humans happy and healthy.

By working from the premise that statistical results allow us to ignore the minorities/exceptions, and generalize regardlessly?

 

[durangodawood]

By working from the premise that statistical results allow us to ignore the minorities/exceptions, and generalize regardlessly?

Sure.
Its fair to generalize about human behavior in certain regards. Knowing how humans typically behave does not require you to ignore the minority.

 

[quatona]

Sure.
Its fair to generalize about human behavior in certain regards. Knowing how humans typically behave does not require you to ignore the minority.

So - apart from academical issues - what practical implications do you suggest for a result that shows a certain distribution of human behaviours?
How are we to proceed from there?

 

[durangodawood]

So - apart from academical issues - what practical implications do you suggest for a result that shows a certain distribution of human behaviours?
How are we to proceed from there?

So, lets say objective inquiry reveals humans are highly likely to require the items I mentioned for flourishing.
Then what?
I'm not sure if this is a political question, or if youre asking how I might choose to behave personally, knowing these things.

 

[quatona]

So, lets say objective inquiry reveals humans are highly likely to require the items I mentioned for flourishing.
Then what?

Yes, that´s my question.

I'm not sure if this is a political question, or if youre asking how I might choose to behave personally, knowing these things.

Any, all of them. If it´s so important to draw such a generalizing conclusion I would expect it to be useful for something.
So, let´s say I have little to none desire for material security (even though researches say that most people have it). What now? What am I to do with that? What are the persons next to me to do with it? What is society to do with it? What difference does it make? (As compared to the hypothetical scenario that my condition is shared by the majority?)

 

[durangodawood]

So, let´s say I have little to none desire for material security (even though researches say that most people have it). What now? What am I to do with that? What are the persons next to me to do with it? What is society to do with it? What difference does it make? (As compared to the hypothetical scenario that my condition is shared by the majority?)

I think these generalizing conclusions are very important in developing your own political philosophy.

But I never really made any claim about their importance. Its just a line of discussion that follows naturally from the thread topic. At the least, this sort of philosophical discussion helps me to form a picture of how the world works.

So, let´s say I have little to none desire for material security (even though researches say that most people have it). What now? What am I to do with that? What are the persons next to me to do with it? What is society to do with it? What difference does it make? (As compared to the hypothetical scenario that my condition is shared by the majority?)

If you value a world of generally happy people, you could use this knowledge to develop your own political philosophy. This does not have to threaten your own indifference to material things in any way.

 

[quatona]

I think these generalizing conclusions are very important in developing your own political philosophy.

But I never really made any claim about their importance. Its just a line of discussion that follows naturally from the thread topic. At the least, this sort of philosophical discussion helps me to form a picture of how the world works.

If you value a world of generally happy people, you could use this knowledge to develop your own political philosophy. This does not have to threaten your own indifference to material things in any way.

Thanks for explaining!
However, I´m not sure I have a "political philosophy", and I am not sure I want one. Actually, I´m not even sure what that is.