We all know about Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Limbo...is there more, are there any ones that are dispute, obsolete, controversial or thrown out, any up-and-coming, or has it always been just these 4?
Thanks,
~*Neal*~
Thanks,
~*Neal*~
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Are there more places than Heaven & Hell?
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Sabra
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NealP:
The Bible teaches that there are only two eternal addresses: heaven and hell. There is no such thing as purgatory and limbo - the Bible never mentions them nor implies their existence. It's just man-made religious nonsense.
The Bible teaches that there are only two eternal addresses: heaven and hell. There is no such thing as purgatory and limbo - the Bible never mentions them nor implies their existence. It's just man-made religious nonsense.
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In the Orthodox Christian Church.... Heaven and Hell are one and the same place... standing in front of God Almightly for the rest of eternity....
The differnece is in how we relate to that... if we hate it... it will be Hell...
If we are in communion with God then it will be Heaven.
Forgive me...
The differnece is in how we relate to that... if we hate it... it will be Hell...
If we are in communion with God then it will be Heaven.
Forgive me...
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Hello, Sabra.
Either the pastor did not give you a good, Biblical answer -- or she/he misunderstood what is said. A knowledgeable priest,pastor or layman would answer your reply something like this:
The word "purgatory" is not in the Bible, but that does not mean that Purgatory does not exist. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible, but the divine Trinity exists. We know what the Trinity is (as well as we are able to grasp a mystery), and there are many verses that help us to see that there is a Trinity. In like manner, there are many verses that help us to see that there is a Purgatory.
God has not revealed even to Christians all the details of the afterlife. But a careful look at the Old Testament (and even some things stated in the New Testment) reveal that God had revealed even less about the afterlife to the Jews. They really did not refer to distinct non-earthly places like our heaven, hell, and purgatory. Instead, somewhat like non-Christian cultures of the time, they seemed to have a murky idea of some kind of subterranean world (sometimes called hades, tartarus, sheol, the pit, etc.) -- which lay below the bodies of the buried dead.
There is another scripture which I think is a much better description of the concept of Purgatory: 1Corinthians 3:12-15: "Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw each mans work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire*."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So instead of calling it man-made nothing, say "you feel" it is man-made nothing, or are you saying you know for sure what it is/isn't...because you cannot, no mortal human does/ever has/most likely never will. I don't appreciate you saying it doesn't exist, I could be impressionable and belive you are all-knowing, luckily I'm smarter than that. Please don't impose your beliefs on readers, simply use words "I think, ____ claims, it is assumed" etc. to make it "not true" but also "possibly true".
Thanks,
~*Neal*~
Either the pastor did not give you a good, Biblical answer -- or she/he misunderstood what is said. A knowledgeable priest,pastor or layman would answer your reply something like this:
The word "purgatory" is not in the Bible, but that does not mean that Purgatory does not exist. The word "trinity" is not in the Bible, but the divine Trinity exists. We know what the Trinity is (as well as we are able to grasp a mystery), and there are many verses that help us to see that there is a Trinity. In like manner, there are many verses that help us to see that there is a Purgatory.
God has not revealed even to Christians all the details of the afterlife. But a careful look at the Old Testament (and even some things stated in the New Testment) reveal that God had revealed even less about the afterlife to the Jews. They really did not refer to distinct non-earthly places like our heaven, hell, and purgatory. Instead, somewhat like non-Christian cultures of the time, they seemed to have a murky idea of some kind of subterranean world (sometimes called hades, tartarus, sheol, the pit, etc.) -- which lay below the bodies of the buried dead.
There is another scripture which I think is a much better description of the concept of Purgatory: 1Corinthians 3:12-15: "Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw each mans work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire*."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
So instead of calling it man-made nothing, say "you feel" it is man-made nothing, or are you saying you know for sure what it is/isn't...because you cannot, no mortal human does/ever has/most likely never will. I don't appreciate you saying it doesn't exist, I could be impressionable and belive you are all-knowing, luckily I'm smarter than that. Please don't impose your beliefs on readers, simply use words "I think, ____ claims, it is assumed" etc. to make it "not true" but also "possibly true".
Thanks,
~*Neal*~
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Sabra
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With all due respect NealP, you've given me no reason to even think that you have a case. Not one biblical verse which backs up or supports your assertion about the existence of these places. Also, almost all Protestant denominations don't believe in purgatory and limbo.
You are correct in that the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible, but the concept is certainly in the Bible. The term "Trinity" is just a coined term used to describe this biblical concept. However, there are no verses that imply the existence of purgatory. If there is, then please list them.
Your reference of 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory. It is more a reference to Christ trying [testing] our doctrines and works that will be revealed on Judgment Day. In the scenario of verse 15, the apostle obviously refers to the case of a man, who, having builded a house, and begun to dwell in it, the house happens to be set on fire, and he has warning of it just in time to escape with his life, losing at the same time his house, his goods, his labour, and almost his own life. So he who, while he holds the doctrine of Christ crucified as the only foundation on which a soul can rest its hopes of salvation, builds at the same time, on that foundation, Antinomianism, or any other erroneous or destructive doctrine, he shall lose all his labour, and his own soul scarcely escape everlasting perdition; nor even this unless sheer ignorance and inveterate prejudice, connected with much sincerity, be found in his case.
The popish writers have applied what is here spoken to the fire of purgatory; and they might with equal propriety have applied it to the discovery of the longitude, the perpetual motion, or the philosopher's stone; because it speaks just as much of the former as it does of any of the latter. The fire mentioned here is to try the man's work, not to purify his soul; but the dream of purgatory refers to the purging in another state what left this impure; not the work of the man, but the man himself; but here the fire is said to try the work: hence, purgatory is not meant even if such a place as purgatory could be proved to exist; which remains yet to be demonstrated.
So instead of calling it man-made nothing
I didn't, I called it "man-made religious nonsense." I don't compromise the truth just to make people "feel better." I have never said nor maintained that I know everything, but I do know the one book in which we can get as close to absolute knowledge as possible in this life, and this book gives no support to your position. It must be obviously stretched and twisted before it supports purgatory.
I know that it doesn't exist because there is no reference, no implication, no anything to it in the Bible and I believe that the Bible is God's inspired revelation to mankind about who He is, what He's done and what awaits us after death, among other things.
If I came across as you accused me of, then that has to do with that way that you are picking it up, rather than how I am giving it out as it is not my intention. I'm sorry, but I just can't simply respect such a position that allows for an unbliblcal concept of purgatory.
Reference:
Clarkes Commentary.
You are correct in that the word "Trinity" does not appear in the Bible, but the concept is certainly in the Bible. The term "Trinity" is just a coined term used to describe this biblical concept. However, there are no verses that imply the existence of purgatory. If there is, then please list them.
Your reference of 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 has absolutely nothing to do with purgatory. It is more a reference to Christ trying [testing] our doctrines and works that will be revealed on Judgment Day. In the scenario of verse 15, the apostle obviously refers to the case of a man, who, having builded a house, and begun to dwell in it, the house happens to be set on fire, and he has warning of it just in time to escape with his life, losing at the same time his house, his goods, his labour, and almost his own life. So he who, while he holds the doctrine of Christ crucified as the only foundation on which a soul can rest its hopes of salvation, builds at the same time, on that foundation, Antinomianism, or any other erroneous or destructive doctrine, he shall lose all his labour, and his own soul scarcely escape everlasting perdition; nor even this unless sheer ignorance and inveterate prejudice, connected with much sincerity, be found in his case.
The popish writers have applied what is here spoken to the fire of purgatory; and they might with equal propriety have applied it to the discovery of the longitude, the perpetual motion, or the philosopher's stone; because it speaks just as much of the former as it does of any of the latter. The fire mentioned here is to try the man's work, not to purify his soul; but the dream of purgatory refers to the purging in another state what left this impure; not the work of the man, but the man himself; but here the fire is said to try the work: hence, purgatory is not meant even if such a place as purgatory could be proved to exist; which remains yet to be demonstrated.
So instead of calling it man-made nothing
I didn't, I called it "man-made religious nonsense." I don't compromise the truth just to make people "feel better." I have never said nor maintained that I know everything, but I do know the one book in which we can get as close to absolute knowledge as possible in this life, and this book gives no support to your position. It must be obviously stretched and twisted before it supports purgatory.
I know that it doesn't exist because there is no reference, no implication, no anything to it in the Bible and I believe that the Bible is God's inspired revelation to mankind about who He is, what He's done and what awaits us after death, among other things.
If I came across as you accused me of, then that has to do with that way that you are picking it up, rather than how I am giving it out as it is not my intention. I'm sorry, but I just can't simply respect such a position that allows for an unbliblcal concept of purgatory.
Reference:
Clarkes Commentary.
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Forest
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1 Peter 3:19
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
Where do you suppose "prison" is?
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison
Where do you suppose "prison" is?
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But don't forget how may versions of gospels were scrapped like regular book chapters, being as they seemed too much of a contradiction to the church at the time. We don't know the truth, you believe what you believe and I'll believe what I'll believe, but the Bible is missing many parts, and don't forget some of those deleted gospels may have changed the church doctrine in its entirety, and led to new religions like Kaballah.
Until we all see everything once considered for the Bible unchanged, each segment togther, none of us can say we know anything...we don't, the Bible is missing parts, so purgatory among other such vital things may have been more clearly defined there, but I thik the Bible outlines it enough now.
None of us know though...that is why it is called Faith, we believe, we never know!
~*Neal*~
Until we all see everything once considered for the Bible unchanged, each segment togther, none of us can say we know anything...we don't, the Bible is missing parts, so purgatory among other such vital things may have been more clearly defined there, but I thik the Bible outlines it enough now.
None of us know though...that is why it is called Faith, we believe, we never know!
~*Neal*~
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Jimmy West said:
Ohhhh....second star and straight on 'till morning. Capital!
We can use the search button on the "Purgatory" question but be aware that Limbo is not a doctrine of the Catholic Church.
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U R my Sonshine
I have a baguette, and I am not afraid to use it.
Wow! Excellent answer. Actually the ONLY answer I have ever heard that makes our eternal "resting place" COMPLETLEY just and deserved, no materr WHERE you are in the walk with the LORD.....Orthodoxyusa said:
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NealP said:
There are only two ages. The people who die stay dead until the 2nd coming of Christ in the resurrection (unless there are specific Bible verses to say otherwise, as in the cases of Enoch, Elijah, and Moses and the relatively few who came up at Jesus' resurrection in Matthew 27).
Luke 20
34 Jesus answered and said to them, The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that (future) age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage... 37 But even Moses showed in the burning bush passage that the dead are raised, when he called the Lord the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
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Before the resurrection, where are they?
JOHN 5
28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come outthose who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
JOHN 5
28 "Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come outthose who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned.
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skepticismskeptic said:
There is evidence for Purgatory too. Unfortuantely Luther decided to remove those books from the Bible because he disagreed with the dogma.
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Purgatory needs to happen in this life. Rid your life of sin now; don't expect a future opportunity for cleansing.
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