Are there Ghosts???!?????

[Lokisdottir]

(some stuff about evil secular music)

Um... I think you have the wrong topic, guy.

*cranks up some Slayer*

 

[Aimee30]

25 During the fourth watch of the night Jesus went out to them, walking on the lake. 26 When the diisciples saw him walking on the lake, they were terrified. "It's a ghost," they said, and cried out in fear.

Hmm, I have had this debated before, some just remarking they were superstitious. Sounds to me somebody at that time believed in ghosts.

Also check out the story of Saul and the Witch of Endor. 1 Samuel 28: 5-19. You can get these verses on the Search/Bible in the top menu bar. Insteresting, he has her do something he considered evil, calling up a spirit of the dead. An interesting twist on this is that some beliefs in Christianity try to pass off the spirit of Samuel as a demon. If the Bible says it was Samuel's spirit it must have been what it said it was. Nowhere in the text does it say it is demon that looks like Samuel. So rumors of spirits or ghost seem to have been in play since OT times.

Okay now for personal testimony, with problems such as these. Hmm, I even doubt my own sanity. However, I did record a voice on tape that just wasn't there once, it said something that sounded like either "Kaysancal", "Physical", or "Big circle." Okay, I've seen things like that looked like walking shadows or light beings. Some of the light beings were red and one that I remember was white light. They all resembled human forms both light and shadow. The red light ones appeared violent to me. This doesn't happen always. In one place that appeared to have a red light being, I also heard a voice speaking to me. Also, a person who worked on the house heard strange knocking, he used his hammer and something from inside knocked back with no one being home. I abandoned that place quickly.

Well, now anyone reading this might think I'm looking for my lost marbles as we speak, but those things have occurred in my life. Anything that had been witnessed by more than person I believe must have occurred somehow. I kind of find it hard to figure out why more than one person would hallucinate about the same house/event.

I do believe in the spiritual side of Christianity. I also think spiritual manifestations hold proof for some sort spiritual realm, for me it is Heaven and perhaps Hell. I do not believe I am a psychic, but a witness of spiritual things. I believe awareness of the spiritual comes from God, whereas I believe they think it comes from themselves. Hence, spiritual gifts from the Holy Spirit denote spiritual awareness from God.

And if nothing else, you can tell people if you're a Christian you believe in at least one ghost by the way--the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit.

I was going to wait a week to post again but this conversation looked so interesting i had to put my foot in my mouth and jump in blindly. I had quit the forums for a while but I'm back and hopefully I will show more self-control when posting in the future. Interesting topic, by the way.

 

[NaAsThIk]

S C I E N C E D O E S N O T S A Y G O D D O E S N O T E X I S T

b u t m o s t o f t h e s c i e n t i s t s b e l i e v e t h e r e i s n o G o d !

I believe in evolution like I believe in gravity. But I don't believe in God, not because of these, but because I see no reason to. SCience only explains the natural. It can by it's nature say nothing about the supernatural. Therefore the supernatural does not concern science.

_
science indirectly says there is no God....ofcource its direct some times..........

to prove "some thing" in science......you need a hypothesis and then proof....if some hypothesis cant be proved, science says it's not true!^

 

[TheReasoner]

b u t m o s t o f t h e s c i e n t i s t s b e l i e v e t h e r e i s n o G o d !


_
science indirectly says there is no God....ofcource its direct some times..........

to prove "some thing" in science......you need a hypothesis and then proof....if some hypothesis cant be proved, science says it's not true!^

Do they?
Does it?
What do you base this on?
(references please)

 

[Ryal Kane]

I've seen ghosts twice in my life, both when I was much younger.
Paradoxically, I don't really believe in them. I don't think they are the spirits of the dead. At best, and I'm very tenuous on the theory, I think they're reoccurances of former human thought. Brainwave echos if you will but I don't think this is really the case. Most of the time they are simply environmental factors or inventions (unintentional) of the most advanced pattern recognition systems known to man: our brains.

 

[HazyRigby]

Prove the existence of Dark Matter, or even black holes. Prove string theory, or explain gravity.
You can't

You can't "prove" the existence of any scientific theory. Science is not about proof. And as for things like dark matter and black holes, we observe them indirectly. We can look at and measure the effect that they have on the universe. And why can't I explain gravity?

But that does not mean they don't exist.

Show me that ghosts have as much scientific evidence as gravity, and I'll be happy to look at your beliefs. Until then, it's just a fantasy. Why won't someone take the James Randi challenge if ghosts do exist? There's not a single person who owns a haunted house who could use some money?

Balderdash.

 

[Dennis Moore]

Ooh! A ghost thread? And I missed it? Darn. Belief in the paranormal used to be my religion, practically. Ghosts, UFOs, Bigfoot ... shoot, it was the total lack of evidence for any of them that helped my hone my skepticism, and my newly-honed skepticism ultimately led me to my nontheism.

There are lots of ghost stories out there, and not a shred of tangible proof to back any of them up. I've seen all the photos, read all the explanations, including the sad "apologetics" where they try to explain WHY there's no tangible evidence. From "orbs" to "white noise," it's all nonsense of the worst sort.

 

[TheReasoner]

You can't "prove" the existence of any scientific theory. Science is not about proof. And as for things like dark matter and black holes, we observe them indirectly. We can look at and measure the effect that they have on the universe. And why can't I explain gravity?

Noone can explain gravity. We know what it is, and what it does. But not why it is. Or how/why it works, in depth that is.
My point is, while you cannot see these things directly, but observe them indirectly like you say, that happens to be the same with God. You cannot see him as you would be able to see me standing in front of me, but you can observe him indirectly.

And for as long as a scientific theory is a theory as opposed to proven fact - it should be taught as a theory. Not fact. Teaching theories as fact is highly unfortunate as it does not encourage curiosity and freedom of thought, but rather serves to indoctrinate the ones taught this possible lie into the theory's funder's way of thought. Science is supposed to be critical. Analytical and open, open to the possibility of even what we see as proven fact to be challenged by new theories. When even known facts is subject to critical analysis from scientists, how much more should not unproven theories be subject to challenges?
Therefore, theories must not be taught as facts. Sadly, many people seem to think differently...

Show me that ghosts have as much scientific evidence as gravity, and I'll be happy to look at your beliefs. Until then, it's just a fantasy. Why won't someone take the James Randi challenge if ghosts do exist? There's not a single person who owns a haunted house who could use some money?

Balderdash.

I am not saying they have as much scientific proof as gravity. I am saying they have not been proven to not exist, and as a person who seems to value science, should you not be in the front lines of defending putting forth more research on the field? If for nought else to get closure to it. If they do not exist, science should be able to prove it, right? And if they do exist, what's the big problem? Do you feel it would be an intolerable assault to your religion? No offense to atheists, but some of the most fundamentalistically behaving people I have met have been atheists. Claiming to put science before other things should be reflected in acts as well as words. And this would require an openness and desire to research which sadly seems nonexistant in many who follow your belief.
Fact is; We do not know if ghosts exist or not. We don't. It's all assumptions and educated guesses so far, if seen through the objective eye of true science. Until it is proven, or disproven, one must remain open.

 

[Lokisdottir]

Noone can explain gravity. We know what it is, and what it does. But not why it is. Or how/why it works, in depth that is.
My point is, while you cannot see these things directly, but observe them indirectly like you say, that happens to be the same with God. You cannot see him as you would be able to see me standing in front of me, but you can observe him indirectly.

But we do have proof of gravity's existence. Try jumping, and see if you don't land on the ground.

Trying to compare gravity to ghosts in terms of proof is just silly. Just accept that not everyone is going to share your belief.

 

[TheReasoner]

But we do have proof of gravity's existence. Try jumping, and see if you don't land on the ground.

Trying to compare gravity to ghosts in terms of proof is just silly. Just accept that not everyone is going to share your belief.

Hm. Did I compare the two beyond that they are unexplainable phenomena?
Allow me to say what i did again, in fewer words:

Gravity cannot be explained.

You know how it works, we all do. But not why. I was merely bringing it up as an example to something we know exist, but cannot explain. Not that we know ghosts exist, but as we cannot explain something as ordinary as gravity or light's nature (that you can know a photon's place, but not speed, or speed but not position for instance, or that it's both beam and wave, or that it can travel at C while it still does have mass....)
There are loads of things around us we all take for granted we cannot explain. Why should we then be so quick to dismiss that which we do NOT yet know wether exists or not? We should know better I think.

[edit]Have I said much about my beliefs here, or have I been arguing for the possibility of a greater/deeper existence than we know exist today?[/edit]

 

[HazyRigby]

Noone can explain gravity. We know what it is, and what it does. But not why it is. Or how/why it works, in depth that is.

Funny, I thought Einstein explained it pretty well. Do you have a source to show me that "no one can explain gravity"?

My point is, while you cannot see these things directly, but observe them indirectly like you say, that happens to be the same with God. You cannot see him as you would be able to see me standing in front of me, but you can observe him indirectly.

No...what you should say is that you think that you are observing him indirectly. Not only do you have no proof of that (or even any evidence to back it up), there are other people in the world who think exactly the opposite. And there are people who think that they observe other gods indirectly. Why does your deity deserve more belief than any other, or none at all?

And for as long as a scientific theory is a theory as opposed to proven fact - it should be taught as a theory. Not fact.

Take the time to do some searching on the term scientific theory. I don't think you understand the term. Once you understand that there's no such thing as scientific fact, you'll begin to understand the nature of science. I think, though, that you have an off-topic axe to grind here, so I'll just point out that if we didn't teach anything classified as a theory, we'd be leaving out gravity, germ theory, atomic theory, relativity, and so on. When will people understand that the term "theory" does NOT mean "guess"?

Teaching theories as fact is highly unfortunate as it does not encourage curiosity and freedom of thought, but rather serves to indoctrinate the ones taught this possible lie into the theory's funder's way of thought.

There. You've just proven that you have no idea what a theory is, or how many times all of the scientific theories have passed rigorous tests. Do you honestly believe that scientists just fall in line behind one person who just makes something up?! Do a little research, man.

I am not saying they have as much scientific proof as gravity. I am saying they have not been proven to not exist, and as a person who seems to value science, should you not be in the front lines of defending putting forth more research on the field?

There has been much research into ghosts. None of it has turned up anything. And as well you should know, you can't prove that something (in general) doesn't exist. I also can't prove that unicorns, Bigfoot, Nessie, goblins, fairies, UFOs, trolls, basilisks, and Harry Potter don't exist. It's a big cop-out on your part.

If for nought else to get closure to it. If they do not exist, science should be able to prove it, right?

No.

And if they do exist, what's the big problem? Do you feel it would be an intolerable assault to your religion?

I don't have a religion. And no, I don't think that. Believe me, if someone actually proved that ghosts do exist, I'd probably spend all of my free time checking it out and thinking cool thoughts about it. But I don't believe in something just because it hasn't been proven to NOT exist. Do you believe that the Trix rabbit exists? Scientists haven't disproven him, either.

No offense to atheists, but some of the most fundamentalistically behaving people I have met have been atheists. Claiming to put science before other things should be reflected in acts as well as words. And this would require an openness and desire to research which sadly seems nonexistant in many who follow your belief.

What you're misunderstanding is science. See earlier in my post.

Fact is; We do not know if ghosts exist or not.

That's true. But considering that there is not one shred of scientific evidence to suggest that they do, I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Lithium Hobo]

Nope, not ghosts. Ghost Busters took care of them all. In 1998, there was a huge economy drop so the president enlisted the Ghost Busters and took the profits for the government. As such, the GB were given tax exempt status and a pretty gal. Of course, many wanted, and became, GBs. By 2001, all ghosts were eliminated when the holding tanks for all ghost was shot to Mars. That's when they decided to film "Ghosts of Mars" a documentary.

 

[TheReasoner]

bashing, bashing, bashing

Thanks. I felt like having my head beat in by an atheist today.

After all, being bashed is why I came here. Not friendly discussion.

 

[HazyRigby]

Thanks. I felt like having my head beat in by an atheist today.

Would it be different to have your head beaten in by any other kind of person?

After all, being bashed is why I came here. Not friendly discussion.

It's not bashing. I'm not saying you're a "bad person," or anything. But "debate" does mean that points have to be gotten across. We can't talk meaningfully about science or about theories if we don't have a common understanding of what the terms we're using mean. If you refuse to even do basic legwork to defend your ideas, how can we have a discussion, even a "friendly" one?

I, for one, feel rather insulted when someone comes into a thread lashing about concerning "theories" and "lies." If you've taken the time to study what reputable scientists have to say on the subject, then fine. But I don't think you have, and I think you should.

 

[snowydc2003]

AH???
i....i am asking you are there any ghosts\evils\evil powers\witches on the earth?????????
i 've heard many people saying there are ghosts and they have seen them!.....are they visible??!
what do they do?...where do they live?

and...............??

Ghosts: I beleive that there are ghosts around us but only a few are "interactive" most are just like a memory.

Evils, evil powers: not sure about this one, evil is very subjective, one persons evil is anothers salvation.

Witches: There are definately witches, I am one and we have nothing to do with evilness!

 

[NaAsThIk]

now i am trying to study theory of relativity!
i just understood it in a simpler way..........planning to go through it much deeply!