Are there different types of perfection according to Paul?

[TruthSeek3r]

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (ESV):

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.​

Philippians 3:12-21 (ESV):

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.​

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV):

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.​

Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV):

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.​

• In 1 Corinthians 13:10 Paul talks about a perfection that hasn't come yet.
• In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about a perfection he hasn't attained yet.
• In 2 Timothy 3:17 Paul talks about a kind of perfection/completeness facilitated by inspired Scripture, and the verse is phrased in a way that makes it sound like this kind of perfection is attainable in this life (or is it?).
• In Ephesians 4:13 Paul talks about a kind of perfection that applies corporately to the whole body of Christ, facilitated by the appointed offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.

Questions

• Does Paul have different types of perfection in mind?
• When are/were/will these different types of perfection (be) actualized?
• What are the implications regarding the gifts of the Spirit and the offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd and teacher?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (ESV):

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.​

Philippians 3:12-21 (ESV):

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.​

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV):

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.​

Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV):

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.​

• In 1 Corinthians 13:10 Paul talks about a perfection that hasn't come yet.
• In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about a perfection he hasn't attained yet.
• In 2 Timothy 3:17 Paul talks about a kind of perfection/completeness facilitated by inspired Scripture, and the verse is phrased in a way that makes it sound like this kind of perfection is attainable in this life (or is it?).
• In Ephesians 4:13 Paul talks about a kind of perfection that applies corporately to the whole body of Christ, facilitated by the appointed offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.

Questions

• Does Paul have different types of perfection in mind?
• When are/were/will these different types of perfection (be) actualized?
• What are the implications regarding the gifts of the Spirit and the offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd and teacher?

I belive in all cases Paul is talking about Love.
Blessings

 

[GDL]

Yes, Paul has some different concepts of perfection. One of the easy ways to see this is in Philippians 3 when we add a verse not referenced in your post. In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about the perfection he has not yet attained - arriving at the resurrection. In Philippians 3:15 he commands all those who are perfect (mature - same Greek word) to have his same thinking and pursuit of the perfection/resurrection.

So, the perfect are to continue to pursue the perfection.

Perfection is a great topic to branch out on beyond Paul. Hebrews 5:12-6:3 discusses some of the meaning of perfection/maturity and commands pursuit of it. Jesus commands it in Matthew 5:48 and commands following Him to it in Matthew 19:21.

Back to Paul, he uses the word "spiritual" in his command in Galatians 6:1. When we trace what Paul means by this, he uses the same reasoning that Hebrews 5 uses and by his wording makes "spiritual" and "perfect" essentially synonymous.

We're used to taking "perfect" to indicate sinless perfection, but the bulk of teaching on the topic doesn't use it this way. The Greek word basically means an end, a completion. It's similar to our pursuit of a completion/perfection of one level of education and then proceeding on to higher completion(s).

Then our Text takes it into a perfection beyond this existence and in Jesus' command to be perfect, He relates this perfection to a characteristic of God our Father. Hebrews 5:8-9 in the context of His learning obedience, says He was perfected, and ties our salvation to obeying Him (as He obeyed our Father and was perfected).

We're also to be perfected in Love as Maria says and the above essentially says also, since love for God and one another is to obey God.

Great topic.

 

[bmjackson]

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (ESV):

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.​

Philippians 3:12-21 (ESV):

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.​

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV):

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.​

Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV):

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.​

• In 1 Corinthians 13:10 Paul talks about a perfection that hasn't come yet.
• In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about a perfection he hasn't attained yet.
• In 2 Timothy 3:17 Paul talks about a kind of perfection/completeness facilitated by inspired Scripture, and the verse is phrased in a way that makes it sound like this kind of perfection is attainable in this life (or is it?).
• In Ephesians 4:13 Paul talks about a kind of perfection that applies corporately to the whole body of Christ, facilitated by the appointed offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.

Questions

• Does Paul have different types of perfection in mind?
• When are/were/will these different types of perfection (be) actualized?
• What are the implications regarding the gifts of the Spirit and the offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd and teacher?

You have missed an important verse:

Phil 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

He is not talking about perfection per say but the resurrection of the dead and as he says later:

15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded:

So he is speaking to those who are perfect in the manner of the bible. So some of them had obtained it by grace and some not, just like today just most have not.

It says that tongues will end, as they did and in Greek by an outside force but nowhere does it say the offices end.

 

[fhansen]

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (ESV):

8 Love never ends. As for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways. 12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I have been fully known.​

Philippians 3:12-21 (ESV):

12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. 13 Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, 14 I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Let those of us who are mature think this way, and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal that also to you. 16 Only let us hold true to what we have attained.

17 Brothers, join in imitating me, and keep your eyes on those who walk according to the example you have in us. 18 For many, of whom I have often told you and now tell you even with tears, walk as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19 Their end is destruction, their god is their belly, and they glory in their shame, with minds set on earthly things. 20 But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself.​

2 Timothy 3:16-17 (ESV):

16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.​

Ephesians 4:11-16 (ESV):

11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.​

• In 1 Corinthians 13:10 Paul talks about a perfection that hasn't come yet.
• In Philippians 3:12 Paul talks about a perfection he hasn't attained yet.
• In 2 Timothy 3:17 Paul talks about a kind of perfection/completeness facilitated by inspired Scripture, and the verse is phrased in a way that makes it sound like this kind of perfection is attainable in this life (or is it?).
• In Ephesians 4:13 Paul talks about a kind of perfection that applies corporately to the whole body of Christ, facilitated by the appointed offices of apostles, prophets, evangelists, shepherds and teachers.

Questions

• Does Paul have different types of perfection in mind?
• When are/were/will these different types of perfection (be) actualized?
• What are the implications regarding the gifts of the Spirit and the offices of apostle, prophet, evangelist, shepherd and teacher?

Historically the Church has taught that God has a plan with this whole endeavor called "creation". And that everything in creation has a purpose. Man's purpose, uniquely, is to become, with time and struggle, like Him. And the first step is for us to recognize our absolute destitution when apart from Him. That's what Adam missed, and that's what we're here for now, to truly learn of His existence, first of all, and of His goodness, mercy, trustworthiness, and love, most of all of His love which encompasses and sums up the rest anyway. To be like God largely means to love as He does, which is why the greatest commandments are what they are, incidentally, and this righteousness, this love, is only possible if in communion with Him, with grace, IOW. In fact, a primary difference between the old and new covenants is this very direct and personal union. We exist in a state of injustice, relative chaos, disorder otherwise; man is lost when apart from God. And union with Him is entered into via faith, which is the first step in restored justice for man, and which places him on the right path, on a "journey to perfection" as it's been called. Faith means to come home, like a prodigal back to his father's house.

So the ultimate perfection or telos or purpose of man is to come to know God and so, ultimately, come to love Him with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength-and then our neighbor as ourselves. Then our union with Him (and total peace, satisfaction and happiness, BTW) would be complete, and this is to begin here but is only fully realized and consummated in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). And the beginning here, from our persective, is, again, faith, based on the "knowledge of God", revealed completely and definitively in the person of Jesus Christ. This knowledge is referred to in, among other places, the New Covenant prophecy of Jermiah 31:32-34 and in John 17:3.

Meanwhile we struggle, we're not totally at peace with ourselves or Him; we're still attracted to other things that conflict with our putting God first above all else. We're still hampered by our own pride and fear of what the next guy thinks. We're not fully bound to Him; we haven't fully given ourselves over to good over evil. The family tradition of sin begun by Adam still attracts us, even though we were never created to sin. It's a struggle, but a good and worthy one, a struggle involving grace and the human will. And the intention and potential is for something truly grand and noble to be produced. God's always wanted the very best for man, but that necessarily involves our participation, according to His wisdom and will.