Are there any Wesleyans on here that believe in Eternal Security?

[timothyu]

The Matthew version of the Great Commission says to make disciples.

Are you referring to disciples of Jesus or disciples of the religion and doctrines of man? If the latter it shouldn't matter what one does for they are of the will of man defining the will of God.

 

[Dave-W]

Are you referring to disciples of Jesus or disciples of the religion and doctrines of man? If the latter it shouldn't matter what one does for they are of the will of man defining the will of God.

The command is for us to make disciples, teaching them how to obey our Lord’s commands.

 

[timothyu]

The command is for us to make disciples, teaching them how to obey our Lord’s commands.

Yes, put His will before our own and love all as serf. Don't see much of those commands taught by disciples. See a lot of self justification of the will of man though.

 

[Methodized]

I'll be honest one of the reasons I asked this question is because I am considering someday pursuing ordination in a Wesleyan denomination as I identify with the majority of those beliefs especially with Prevenient Grace, Justifying Grace, and Sanctifying Grace but at the same time I do believe in OSAS. I guess if worse comes to worse that's always something I can keep to myself as I'd much rather serve in a Wesleyan style church than a Baptist one.

Just so you know, many Boards of Ordained Ministry would not consider believing in OSAS a "non-essential" because it actually contradicts the Wesleyan understanding of grace, particularly the doctrine of sanctification.

Once saved always saved means you are going to heaven no matter what you do, no matter what you choose to believe, even if you stop following Christ.

You might consider Wesley's view of "assurance" as a better model. Wesley believed you could have an assurance of your salvation without some kind of predestined idea that you can't ever turn away from the faith.

 

[Rawtheran]

Just so you know, many Boards of Ordained Ministry would not consider believing in OSAS a "non-essential" because it actually contradicts the Wesleyan understanding of grace, particularly the doctrine of sanctification.

Once saved always saved means you are going to heaven no matter what you do, no matter what you choose to believe, even if you stop following Christ.

You might consider Wesley's view of "assurance" as a better model. Wesley believed you could have an assurance of your salvation without some kind of predestined idea that you can't ever turn away from the faith.

Methodized thank you very much for this reply! Graceseeker had also given me some advice a couple of days ago since he has friends who are OSAS. He told me that a more Wesleyan way of putting OSAS would be While it is possible for someone to choose to walk away from God, someone who has experienced God's entire sanctification will not feel the temptation to do so due to the Holy Spirit purging those desires from the heart of a Christian.

 

[Dave-W]

Once saved always saved means you are going to heaven no matter what you do, no matter what you choose to believe, even if you stop following Christ.

You might consider Wesley's view of "assurance" as a better model. Wesley believed you could have an assurance of your salvation without some kind of predestined idea that you can't ever turn away from the faith.

OSAS is a part of Calvinism, a doctrinal stance that Wesley did not embrace at all. (even if parts of the Church of England did) It only makes sense in the light of the other Calvinist doctrinal points like Irresistible grace and Unconditional election.

I find Wesley's assurance a much more scripturally defensible approach.

 

[Methodized]

Methodized thank you very much for this reply! Graceseeker had also given me some advice a couple of days ago since he has friends who are OSAS. He told me that a more Wesleyan way of putting OSAS would be While it is possible for someone to choose to walk away from God, someone who has experienced God's entire sanctification will not feel the temptation to do so due to the Holy Spirit purging those desires from the heart of a Christian.

That is a nice idea. The ability to commit apostasy is part of Methodist doctrine, though it is seldom discussed as turning away from God entirely is something between the individual and God. Only God would know for sure if someone committed apostasy rather than just having a failing of faith for a time.

If fact non-Methodists worry way more about Methodists views of apostasy than Methodists do. I've never met anyone who I believe has actually committed apostasy. Even people who say they've stopped believing in God seldom really mean that. Often they are in a moment of pain, grief, or suffering that makes them feel lost. But that doesn't mean they are lost. If they have even the faith of a mustard seed God will save them because even that small faith is a gift from God.

Apostasy is a very conscience decision to say, "I don't want to believe in God, follow God or serve God now or ever." It isn't backsliding, or having doubts, or human failings. Actual apostasy is so very rare that it really isn't something Christians should worry about.

So while Methodists don't believe in OSAS, we also believe so strongly in the never ending love of God that the value of OSAS pales by comparison to God's desire to guide us, love us and redeem us.

 

[Dave-W]

Apostasy is a very conscience decision to say, "I don't want to believe in God, follow God or serve God now or ever."

YES!!!!

While the CotN congregation I attended in grade and middle school never addressed the issue, the independent pentecostal one in high school certainly did and they taught you lost salvation with every hint of a sin you commit, and most of them are not known to you. Then on the other hand I had christian friends who were Baptist that taught OSAS. So eventually I did my own study of the issue and came to exactly that conclusion myself.

It basically amounts to a divorcing of our selves from the New Covenant.

 

[Rawtheran]

That is a nice idea. The ability to commit apostasy is part of Methodist doctrine, though it is seldom discussed as turning away from God entirely is something between the individual and God. Only God would know for sure if someone committed apostasy rather than just having a failing of faith for a time.

If fact non-Methodists worry way more about Methodists views of apostasy than Methodists do. I've never met anyone who I believe has actually committed apostasy. Even people who say they've stopped believing in God seldom really mean that. Often they are in a moment of pain, grief, or suffering that makes them feel lost. But that doesn't mean they are lost. If they have even the faith of a mustard seed God will save them because even that small faith is a gift from God.

Apostasy is a very conscience decision to say, "I don't want to believe in God, follow God or serve God now or ever." It isn't backsliding, or having doubts, or human failings. Actual apostasy is so very rare that it really isn't something Christians should worry about.

So while Methodists don't believe in OSAS, we also believe so strongly in the never ending love of God that the value of OSAS pales by comparison to God's desire to guide us, love us and redeem us.

Methodized I think this is one of the best ways anyone has ever put it. I felt God's love permeate so much through this post and it really gives a lot of peace. Thank you